Sarcoidosis Answers for Physicians, Nurses and Patients

Here at SarcInfo, between 2002 and 2004, we identified the cause of Sarcoidosis, and successfully trialled a curative antimicrobial therapy. During 2005 and 2006 the US FDA designated the antibiotics Clindamycin and Minocycline as Orphan Products in the treatment of Sarcoidosis, and studies are ongoing elsewhere.

For information about this breakthrough, please post your questions at the current study-site, or the Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
 
This archive of the historic study is maintained by volunteers from the Foundation. The material here provides useful background, but much of it is now out-of-date.

** Patient Tutorials **

 Click here to read "WHY DID I GET SARCOIDOSIS? WHY ME? 

  Click here to read "REMISSION IN SARCOIDOSIS"  

 How a Pathologist can see Bacteria causing Sarcoidosis 

"How does Doctor measure my ACE, and my D-metabolites?"

 Weaning from Prednisone

 Protecting your eyes in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Hypervitaminosis D Symptoms    The SarcInfo F.A.Q.

Medical Abbreviations          CBC Radio Show

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

 

** Papers for Physicians **

Antibacterial Therapy induces Remission 

Implications for Autoimmune Disease 
(Here is Fulltext preprint)

Antibacterial mechanisms for ARBs 

Antibiotics in Sarcoidosis- The 1st Year 

Rationale for abx in Sarcoidosis 

1,25-D and Angiotensin II

"New Treatments Emerge.."

Jarisch-Herxheimer in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

The NIH ACCESS Study finds Sarcoidosis does not go away - Click here to see, and print, the brochure


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 READ ONLY - DO NOT POST HERE: Eye problems
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   04-12-03 17:28

My daughter, age 11, has developed cataracts as a result of uveitis and prednisolone (steroid) eye drops to treat the uveitis. The uveitis (inflammation of the uvea of the eye) is believed to be due to sarcoidosis.

She will need to have the most bothersome cataract removed soon. There is a debate in the medical community about the suitability of using an intraocular lens in someone who has uveitis, even if the inflammation is under control.

I was wondering if those who have had cataract surgery while having uveitis due to sarcoid would share their experiences. In particular, I am wondering about:

1. How long ago was the surgery done?
2. What type of cataract?
3. What hospital or surgeon?
4. Was an intraocularl lens implanted?
5. What has been the result?
6. Was there subsequent inflammation? If so, how was the inflammation controlled?

Thanks.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: mona (---.rasserver.net)
Date:   04-13-03 20:36

Hi Margo,
I'm sorry to hear about the problems that your daughter is having with her eyes. I had/have uveitis caused by sarcoid. I have had 22 eye surgeries and can probably give you a lot of info.

Just to give you a little info-the best doctor in the country for this is C. Stephen Foster at Mass Eye and Ear. Thanks to him I have my sight in one eye and we are still working on the other eye. My left eye, which was the worst, from the cataracts, was operated on first, in NYC. The doctor there implanted an intraocular lens. Because he did not use any immunosuppresssants before, during and afterthe surgery, my eye healed very quickly and there was a lot of scarring, which caused glaucoma. I have had many glaucoma surgeries since then. I then went to Dr. Foster at Mass Eye. He removed the intraocular lens and put in a new glaucoma valve. I also did not have an intraocular lens implanted in my right eye after cataract surgery. The reason for not putting a lens in is that if there is further inflammation it will attack the artificial intraocular lens, which is what happened to the lens in my left eye, which then had to be removed (the lens not my eye).

Of course the down side is that then you have to wear cataract glasses or a contact lens. It is difficult, but your child's sight is the most important issue.

Best wishes, Mona

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-13-03 21:03

Margo,
Eyesight is one of the most precious gifts we have. Preserving it is paramount. I wish I could assure you that the opthalmologists were totally competent at understanding eye disease and how to take care of eyes, but they clearly are not.

Let me give you my suggestion, as an allegory.
In about 1982 I had a crown put on a front tooth. As was pretty usual with me in those days, the root canal did not work properly (it did not kill the inflammation in the root) and I ended up with an abscess. My dentist told me the choice was to wait and see if the inflammation would go away or have the tooth pulled and try to fit a prosthesis of some sort. I decided to tough it out. In about 1990 I found a special mouthwash that would keep the inflammation under control and take away the pain.

In 2002 I started on Minocycline. At about day 45 I noticed that the inflammation in my tooth had gone. No longer was there any pain at all, even when I applied a lot of pressure to it. A few weeks later all signs of the abscess had disappeared. My tooth has been saved.

Now that you know that sarc is causing your daughter's uveitis, and you are waiting for the Avapro to show you how effective it is at reducing the vascular degeneration (there are a number of studies on this) I would not allow any intervention unless I was absolutely sure that it would both fix the cataract, AND not make my eye more likely to have more of them.

Another factor is that the MTX is likely to make it harder to heal after surgery. Gotta get rid of that stuff

Additionally, there is the issue of anaesthetic. Are they intending to use a local with epinephrine? That seems to increase edema when used with sarc patients...

So many questions, so few answers. Personally, I would just want to know, in intimate detail, why the surgery has to be done NOW, why it can't wait until the sarc has a chance to improve, and then I could better balance the relative risks.

Sincerely, Trevor.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-06-03 05:44

My daughter has been taking atropine eye drops, which act to immobilize the iris. It was prescribed to help prevent synechiae, the formation of adhesions between structures of the eye, a complication of iritis or uveitis.

There are a variety of medications like atropine, whose effects last varying amounts of time. (A short-acting one is typically given to dilate the pupil at an eye exam. ) She was on a shorter acting version, homatropine, but had terrible headaches. Since movement of the pupil in patients with iritis (inflammation of the iris) can be painful, the doctor suggested we try atropine. The headaches decreased in severity with the atropine, and she has been using it for nearly a year, with a few breaks to see if she could switch to a similar eye drop where the effects would be shorter. (For example, a short-acting eye drop, used while sleeping.)

We are trying to switch to a different eye drop, but again, she has terrible headaches as the iris begins to move again. The eye doctors find this quite unusual, even the specialist who has treated thousands of patients with eye inflammation. I am starting to wonder if she could have granulomas in the iris itself. I wonder if topical antibiotics applied to the eye would help, if I can persuade a doctor that we should try them. (I was directed to articles on Pub Med which show that topical antibiotics penetrate certain structures in the eye, such as the iris.)

My daugher is also taking Avapro and minocycline. The Herxheimer from the minocycline is quite hard for her to tolerate, though she is on a tiny dose - half a 50 mg capsule. She is no longer on oral prednisone, but is using a prednisone eye drop. (Which can't be good if there are bacteria in the eye itself.) She is on methotrexate as well, which we can't discontinue until there is other evidence that the antibiotic treatment has decreased the inflammation in her eyes.)

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-06-03 05:51

Margo,
Can you be specific about exactly which brands of medications she is using? Do they have anything else (eg inert ingredients or fillers) other than the atropine?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-06-03 09:10

Trevor,

The atropine is called Atropine Sulfate Ophthalmic Solution 1%, made by Falcon Pharmaceuticals. The ingredients are:

Active: atropine sulfate 1%. Preservative: Benzalkonium Chloride 0.01%. Vehicle: Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose 2910 0.5%. Inactive: Boric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide and/or Hydrochloric Acid (to adjust pH), Purified Water.

The steroid eye drops are Prednisolone Acetate Ophthalmic Suspension USP 1%, made by Falcon Pharmaceuticals. Ingredients are:

Active: Prednisolone acetate 1%. Preservative: Benzalkonium Chloride 0.01%. Vehicle: Dibasic Sodium Phosphate, Edetate Disodium, Polysorbate 80, Glycerin, Citric Acid and/or Sodium Hydroxide (to adjust pH), Purified Water.

Her reaction to the increased movement of the iris is the same as she experienced a year ago - constant headache of more severity than her daily constant headache. (The headache increases as the time increases since her last dose of atropine, and as her iris becomes more normal in size.)

I would appreciate any ideas of things to look into.

Thanks.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   05-06-03 23:02

Trevor,

Margo brought up a question I had concerning iritis/uveitis. I also use PredForte (prednisone) eye drops regularly due to ititis. At times it is also necessary to use homatropine (for dialation of the pupil).

I have the same thought as Margo. Wouldn't an antibiotic eye drop be much better than prednisone applied right to the eye? It seems the action of pred directly in the eye would have the same result as it does in a persons system....allow the underlying bacteria causing inflammation flouish.

Any thoughts? Caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Steve (---.server.ntl.com)
Date:   05-07-03 02:02


Caroline,

I could have written your last post, I have the exact same problem and my eye specialist is treating the problem in axactly the same way. I have mentioned the Predforte thing to Trevor previously and he suggested not using the drops for the reasons you mentioned, although like yourself find it the only way to deal with the flare ups (short term). I am hoping the minocycline will eventually kick in and improve the situation (long term). I still believe the specialists are trying to deal with iritis/uveitis and ignoring the sarcoidosis.

cheers

Steve

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Freddie (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   05-07-03 06:28

Hi All

This is Fred in WV. I want to tell you about my eye problems. Back in March 1973 I woke up one morning and my right eye was red and sore. I went to the eye doctor to see if I needed my glasses changed. He looked in and told me that I had some kind of infection and sent me to see another eye doctor. He looked and said I had iritis and gave me PredForte and said to come back in a week. That was on saturday and by wednesday I was having the same problems with my left eye. SO when I went back he said that I had it in the left eye also. It got better and all thru the 1970's I had this to happen ever so offten. Once in the late 1970's he had to put a shot in the right to get it to clear up. This went on untill 1988 when I had to have a catarat taken off the left eye. I ask him if the PredForte did it and he said no that the sarcoidosis did it because inflammation caused cataracts and sarcidosis was an inflammatory type disease. Since I have had the cataract removed I have not had any more eye problems.

Your friend in sarcoidosis
Freddie

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-07-03 06:33

Freddie,
Your eye doctor may have had a reason to blame the sarcoid inflammation, but cataracts are an accepted and common side effect of steroid injections (or prednisone) therapy.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-07-03 06:53

Margo, Caroline, Freddie,
The eye is right next to our brain. It is connected directly to the brain by the optic nerve. Nobody is sure exactly what flows along the optic nerve. Some have suggested that 1,25-D, or some analog, is conducted from the eyes directly to the brain.

I know that when I exposed my eyes to bright light (by taking off my sunglasses) I could be sure to get a migraine, a whole stack of paranoia, anger, aggressiveness, and other neuroses.

Now that my eyes have returned to normal this does not happen. I can now take my glasses off in sunshine without any neuroses or pain.

So it is playing with fire, in my opinion, to be putting any steroids near your eyes. Maybe it is the only therapy available, but steroids in eyes should DEFINTELY be treated as the "last resort". They are too close to the brain, IMO.

We know that oral prednisone, even though it reduces the inflammation on a chest Xray and keeps the Doc happy, does nothing to help our 1,25-D or Angiotensin II levels or our neuro symptoms (after the initial euphoria) and that the neuro symptoms come back worse when we try and stop taking prednisone. Why should the eyes behave any differently?

..Trevor..
ps: I will add to this post after I have had time to research alternatives...

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-07-03 11:32

Trevor,

In a discussion at http://www.uveitis.org, someone contributed the following articles. The question had arisen about the possible effectiveness of medications applied directly to the eye, in particular, in treating uveitis as a complication of Lyme disease.

Margo

"There are several references listed below which address seronegative and postive Lyme and other diseases with ocular manifestations and the use of steroids and/or antibiotics.

Penetration of ocular topical 1% Prenisolone

Systemic loss of topical eye ointments

The aqueous and vitreous humour levels of ciprofloxacin

Topical ocular penetration of Tetracycline

Ocular manifestations in Lyme and the use of topical systemic steroids and antibiotics

Lyme infection and Sarcoidosis

A positive (Lyme) antibody response recognized in several patients with Behcet's disease, Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada syndrome, sarcoidosis, and other conditions (acute anterior uveitis with ankylosing spondylitis)

Eye manifestations, such as keratoconjunctivitis, scleritis, chronic uveitis, vitritis, chorioretinitis, optic nerve disease, orbital myositis and paresis of the eye muscles. Lyme infection and seronegativity"

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   05-07-03 22:09

Tonight while searching antibiotic eye drops and iritis/uveitis. I found the following comment interesting......

[Oral and topical antibiotics are only given when a bacterial infection is present within the eye. Antibiotics are often not used because bacterial infections are not commonly found as the cause of inflammation. Certain bacterial agents can cause uveitis in conjunction with the systemic infection. In these cases, such as Ehrlichia, Lyme's disease and Rocky Mt. Spotted Fever, antibiotic medication must be given to prevent worsening and recurrence of the uveitis]

Freddie, I also had kenalog injections in addition to oral pred and pred forte. I developed a cataract which has been removed. My doc advised me the cataract was the result of prednisone. I, too am waiting and hoping antibiotics will 'heal' my eyes. Sometimes I cannot see clearly right in front of me for the floaters and gauzy-like vision. I detest using pred forte drops, but feel no alternative as I am able to keep some vision with it.

Caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Freddie (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   05-08-03 06:10

Hi Caroline

This is Fred in WV. I have not had to use any eye medicine since I had my cataract removed from my left eye, back in Nov 1988. My right eye was the one that had the shot put into it. I do have a cataract on the right eye and have had for some time. My vision is not as good in the right eye as in the left one. My vision is like yours, it has a lot of floaters and gauzy-like vision. I had read that the sarcoidosis causes floaters in the eyes. I have not ever taken much prednisone because when I was first diagnosed with sarcoidosis(after 9.5 years) I got depressed and was in a mental hospital for 3 weeks before they said it was caused by the prednisone. I have only taken prednisone like for 10 days to clear up breathing problems. On the PredForte, I used it all thru the 1970's and up into the 1980's. I have never know of any other treatments untill I found this site. I do think Trevor is correct in all his findings. I am going to have my family doctor do the vitamin D tests. My ACE is in line because I take the heart pills and my ACE in down in the 6-9 range. I do think my sarcoidosis in remission now but I have all the heart problems now. I have posted under the heart sarcoidosis postings.

Your friend in sarcoidosis
Freddie

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   05-09-03 14:42

Please see my post at the top under NEW TOPICS -

But I have been a Uveitis sufferer also off and on for over 12 years.
First a diagnosis of Lupus, then maybe MS, then "probably ' Sarcoidosis.
I have refused steroids orally, and steroid injection into the eyes to the dismay of many Drs.

I found out all my problems (and they sound like many of yours) is Chronic late stage untreated Lyme and Babesia.
I have sucessfully treated for both, but Uveitis remains in my right eye
(but ver very much better - inflammation under a 1).

I have recently found that " Terramycin" eye ointment made by Pfizer works overnite to reduce red eye. I sparingly use Fred forte (one drop
at night when I use the Terramycin, then one drop in the am).

My Eye Dr. is quite amazed this is working as he beleive the bacteria (Lyme) should be dead after all the antibiotics I've taken this winter.
(All my Lyme sympotms are gone, except the uveitis in the right eye).

My eye Dr. also tells me the Terramycin ointment (tetracycline/polymyxin B sulfate) will not hurt the eye in any way, but he just can't beleive that's what helping the eye (he thinks an auto-immune response is at work - he calles it Post Lyme Syndrome ..... yah well- I reminded hinm they called it first Lupus, then Sarcoidosis...

Gook luck to you all - and you might want to try this eye ointment.

Barb Peck
Vermont

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   05-14-03 09:59

The referenced post by Margo on 5/7/03 from the Uveitis.org site is referring to my post to that site.

I started a conversation about variant forms of bacteria/Uveitis (including Lyme) , and I was asked to site the references - so I posted them, and so ended the discussion.

I thought it would open a discussion - but unfortunately there was no further participation there.

I saw my Ophthalmologist today infact, for recurring Uveitis in my right eye, which has come back after my Lyme antibiotic therapy.

We again discussed steroid drops (and steroids in particular) and it is evident that he (and many other Dr.s) beleive that either cellular debrie,
or DNA fragments from pathogen (that allegedly has been killed by antibiotics) sets up an (auto) immune response they're now calling Post Lyme SYndrome... It is also clear that if they don't see the overt manifestation of infection in a form they recognize, they don't beleive
a pathogen is at the root of the problem.

Since Lupus and Sarcoidodis have been two of my "suspected" disorders
in my past (before the positive Lyme/Babesia tests) I resisted steroids
to the dismay of many Drs., for the last 25 years.

I am extremely reluctant to start steroids now, especially when after 70 days of previous antibiotic therapy for Lyme ALL my symptoms (except for the immune cells still in right eye) are gone, and that includes what were called "allergies" on top of my many other symptoms.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-14-03 10:09

Barb,
You MUST listen to the CBC Radio One "Bacterial Revolution" radio broadcasts. You can find a link to them from this thread here. If you can't hear the audio from the Internet, I am sure ther are some kids in your neighborhood that know how to download the MP3s and burn them onto CDs for you

Take a look also at the comments I left on CHEST journal at this URL

Brown et al, found (with hundreds of patients and controls) that these CWD bacteria are ubiquitous. They are in everybody. It is just that some of us react in different ways to those bacteria (Brown did not contemplate that possibility

The pathogen will be found in your bloodstream. If your pathologist uses the techniques described in this tutorial he/she will be able to find the pathogens in easily-biopsied tissues, such as sweat gands.

I hope this helps.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-14-03 22:10

Barb,

I was very pleased to see your references relating to antibiotic eye ointment. My daughter's most severe sarcoid symptoms are related to uveitis. I am concerned that the eyes, which are so involved, have been constantly exposed to steroid eye drops. I have also been wondering how well systemic antibiotics reach the eyes.

I have found that the discussion section at http://www.uveitis.org is most helpful when posing specific uveitis-related medical questions, which are usually answered by Dr. Stephen Foster, who is a specialist in ocular inflammatory disease. He is very knowledgeable, within a specific framework. He recognizes some infection-related causes of uveitis, probably those that are connected to the traditional definitions of active infection. Because many people who suffer from chronic or recurrent uveitis have trouble finding doctors who take the condition seriously as a symptom of systemic illness, the site can be very helpful in starting diagnosis of the illness. Left untreated, chronic uveitis can cause eye damage, but many doctors appear to consider it a minor or untreatable symptom.

For discussion, I have found more responses at the support-group site that is connected to the uveitis.org site. It is located at http://pub24.ezboard.com/buveitissupportmeei. I sometimes post suggestions at that site that people check out this forum. I don't know if anyone has done so, however. Still, since sarcoidosis is so difficult to cope with, and so few doctors know much about it, I hope that a few suggestions I make will be followed (such as reducing exposure to sources of Vitamin D).

Thanks for the information.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   05-15-03 05:41

I just posted these references to the Uveitis.org group, but they're
just as pertinent here.

It looks like Vitamin E with liposomes are protective.

Penetration of Ocular VEA drops (Vit E Acetate)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11313042&dopt=Abstract

VIT E deficiency and steroid induced cataract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11923254&dopt=Abstract

Liposome in Vit E protective for cataract formation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10375438&dopt=Abstract

Steroid induced cataract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12061274&dopt=Abstract

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-15-03 06:02

Barb and Margo,
I sustained myself throughout the 90's on a high dose of Vit E and Beta Carotene (1000IU every 4-6 hours). Then the ARBs came along and the rest is history...

I never knew the mechanism of action for the benefits of Vitamin E until a report from the UK Govt Expert Vitamin Group just a week ago. This is an incredibly good summary of all the Vitamins, and what they do. It is at URL
http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/vitmin2003.pdf

Pages 136-140 are on Vit D, and are an excellent summary of the safety-related Vit D literature.

But the stuff on Vit E (p147) showed me two things I had never seen reported before: the bi-modal pharmacokinetics (explaining why I had needed to use it every 4-6 hours to be effective against my inflammation) and the likely mechanisms of action - antagonism of the lipid solubility of Vitamin D - in addition to a long-suspected antioxidant role.

I hope this helps to optimize your uveitis therapies...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   05-15-03 08:06

Trevor:

I agree. I've sustained and bolstered my immune system since the 70's
taking natural gamma Vit E, C, alpha -lipoic acid and OPCs and have avoided steroids even under extreme pressure in the past the take them (orally) or get steroid injections into the eyes.
It's probably the reason why my very long-standing waxing and waning anterior Uveitis has NOT produced a cataract yet.

I am now trying very hard (now that I know I was infected with Lyme and Babesia) to subdue the Uveitis in my right eye.
I will read the 2003 reference you cited.

Thanks very much.
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-20-03 18:07

Barb,

My eye doctor could not find terramycin eye ointment. She said that the eye ointment was a generic tetracycline formulation. Then, the pharmacy told her that there is no longer a tetracycline eye ointment.
Could you repeat the exact name and manufacturer of the topical tetracycline medication? Have you been able to purchase it recently in the United States?
My doctor is quite willing for us to try such a medication.
Thank you.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   05-20-03 19:11

Here is one of Pfizers' product sites ... go down to Consumer Products:

The eye ointment I've been using is Oxytetracycline/Polymyxin B sulfate
eye ointment.

http://www.pfizer.com.ph/products.html

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-20-03 19:54

Barb,

The URL you list is for Pfizer in the Phillipines, where they do, indeed, have the product available.

If you have gotten the ointment in the US, was it made by Pfizer? It is not listed in the Pfizer web site for the US,www.pfizer.com./do/index.html.

I have, however, found terramycin B sulfate in on-line veterinary pharmacies in the US! (It is also listed in Canada and South Africa.)

For drug products available in the US, I have found Polymixin B sulfate eye ointment, among others.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   05-21-03 05:26

Hi Margo:

In the US, I am of the understanding that the Veterinary product "Terramycin" eye ointment (which is FDA approved) is exactly the same as their human product sold overseas.

My Ohpthalmologist does not have a problem with me using the Veterinary eye ointment sold by Pfizer (Terramycin) in this country. He also concurrs that the US Vet. product is the same as the 3rd world human product.

I have used the product every night (at bedtime) now for 4 weeks, using one drop of 1% prednisolone with it. I will taper over the next 2 weeks by doing every other night, then every 3'd night, etc...
The if I have no recurrence of Red eye - then will see my Opthal. again in 2 months to take a look inside.


It's certainly worth a try. It may not work for your daughter, but it certainly won't hurt (no side effects). My eye Dr. told me the prescribed therapy for this ointment in developing countries is 2X per day for several months., or every night for the first week of the month for 6 months.

I'll do what ever I have to to avoid steroid injections to the eyes, and
cataract from continous steroid drop use.

I would not buy generic though. If you try this get the Pfizer
product - registered trade marked "Terramycin".

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-26-03 18:40

After about 8 weeks of antibiotic use, at a very low dose, and 10 weeks of ARB use, my daughter had the following results from an eye exam. The doctor saw:

increase of cells in R eye
no cells in L eye

pressure in R eye lower (to 17, from previous readings of 19 to 21)
pressure in L eye lower (to 12, from previous of 19 to 21)

By "cells" in the eye, the doctor means white blood cells in the anterior chamber of the eye, which are taken as a sign of inflammation. The typical medical explanation is that the white blood cell activity is part of the auto-immune disease process.

In view of the bacterial roots of sarcoid, might there be another explanation for the increase in white blood cells? As the antibiotic is killing bacteria, do the white blood cells become more active?

(The decrease in pressure in both eyes, especially in the L, may be due to the ARB. The finding of no cells in the L eye is very positive - most of the time, a low level of cells are found in the L eye. The L eye has always had somewhat less involvement than the R eye.)

Thanks.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-26-03 19:24

Margo,
Medicine is such an imprecise art, and certainly a Doctors' unaided eye is a very imprecise instrument of observation.

CWD bacteria are sized right at the threshold of observation of the highest power microscope normally used in tissue pathology (x500). Clearly Doc was not looking at CWD during his examination. So what was he looking at?

I have to admit that I have little respect for the practice of Immunology. Describing cells as "white" does not seem very scientific, and must take the blame for much of the 100 years it has taken to solve the riddle of immune disease. Several cells fall into the category of "white", and their functions are vastly different.

Neverthless, I will assume that Doc did see something in your daughter's R eye. In the left eye there was a clear quantitative judgment to be made: nothing seen, no argument about that. But what metric did he use as comparison for the right eye? Are we talking about a 10% increase or a 100% increase? Or did it just look like there were more (based on his memory alone)? These are all questions you need to resolve with your opthalmologist before trying to read too much into the results of the eye exam. Maybe the cells were just 'whiter' this time, and so there 'looked like' there were more of them? Maybe the absence of cells in the left eye made their appearance in the right eye even more easy to notice? Without metrics we cannot draw comparisons.

From a technical point of view, while the bacteria are being killed within the tissue there will be "white blood cells" involved. Monocytes, Macrophages and T-lymphocytes. But they will most likely be trapped inside the granuloma, and not escape into the bloodstream. I would not speculate that these were what Doctor saw - I would first want to know what standard of comparison was used. Did he count the number of blood cells over a specific are of the Retina? Was some other metric used?

I really wish that more science would find its way into medicine. It would make everybody's job so much easier...

..Trevor..
ps: Margo, it is great to hear that the pressure and Left eye are improving. Hopefully you can get answers to the situation in the right eye as well... Also, I recall that the dose of Avapro you are using is still too low to effect 100% blockade. There should be room for improvement there...

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-26-03 20:11

Trevor,

The ophthalmologist, doing a slit-lamp exam, counts the number of cells seen in a beam of the light. She normally repeats the count. The inflammation is graded, based on the number of cells seen. Zero means no cells, 1-5 cells is graded 1/2+, 6-15 is 1+, etc. My daughter had 3-5 in the right eye (greater than 60).

Here is an explanation of the process:

"Iritis is inflammation predominantly located in the iris of the eye. Inflammation in the iris is more correctly classified as anterior uveitis because there is also, often, inflammation of the ciliary body.
When the iris is inflamed, white blood cells (leukocytes) are shed into the anterior chamber of the eye where they can be observed on slit lamp examination floating in the convection currents of the aqueous humor. These cells can be counted and form the basis for rating the degree of inflammation" (from the Glossary at http://www.uveitis.org)

I suspect that there are granulomas in or near the eye, since the eye is the major area of troubling inflammation.

I have been concerned about the Avapro dosing. The prescription is for 300 mg per day, with two 75 mg doses, and a 150 mg dose before bed. My daughter feels so poorly for about two days after each dose of the minocycline (half a 50 mg tablet). She is still on methotrexate, which also makes her feel poorly for two days after each weekly dose.

Maybe the doctor who prescribes the Avapro will be willing to up the dose. How much would be recommended for an adult?

We've been hoping that improvement in the uveitis would help get the ophthalmologist to support reducing the methotrexate dose.

Thanks again.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-26-03 21:02

Margo,
Yes, I know that. The explantion sounds very scientific until you begin to dissect it and ask "Why?" For example - a 'leukocyte' is not a unique cell. There are several types of cells from the immune system that can be counted as leukocytes. Again, what was the increase? was it significant?

The hormone that controls differentiation of hematopoetic stem cells to monocyctes and macrophages (some of the 'leukocytes') is 1,25-D. How has her 1,25-D been holding?

The granuloma exist in tissue. They do not exist in the aqueous humor. CWD inflammation can, however, exist in isolated macrophages, it doesn't need a classical 'granuloma'.

I found that 150mg of Avapro every 8 hours was barely enough. Indeed, it was not until Benicar came along that I was able to get a full blockade in place. High dosages of Avapro didn't seem to metabolize properly from my GI tract.

Ask Doc about changing ARBs. It would seem to me that most of the clinical measures of potential eye damage have improved (except for the subjective one) (sorry to be such a stickler, but I just don't trust subjective measurements... especially those which are time consuming...) Was Doc using this 'count' as an excuse to keep the MTX in place? I don't like asking such questions, but unless you ask them you will never know...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   05-27-03 05:57

Once I pinned down my Ohpthal. on the accuracy of the grading
on the inflammation scale (1 thru 4) he told me it is really just an estimate
by the Dr. Most use their own method, so it's anything but precise.

My Ohpthal. has had residents in training many times when he's used the slit lamp on me and giving his explanation to them..
Basically, they position the slit lamp so there is a reflection off the cell
as it floats by, then they're counted for a specific (short) time and then
the inflammation number estimated by how many cells drift by.
He admits the doesn't know what kind of cells are in the anterior chamber
other than probably immune cells.


I think it is a VERY good sign that your daughters left eye is free of inflammation after abx and that the pressure is OK... and is an indicator that things are going in the right direction.

I am still using the Terramycin eye ointment every night in my right eye
(my left eye is free of inflammation).
And the bumps on the white (sclera) which look like tiny cysts which he thought may be "immune complexes" are actually starting to diminish.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Make sure she takes vit E every day (I posted an excellent paper previously about how Vit E protects from cataract)
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-27-03 06:08

Barb,Margo
Vitamin E, at a dosage of 1000 IU a day or so, is unlikely to do any harm. I myself found it was a great help until the ARBs came along. I see no reason not to use it in this case.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   05-27-03 11:08

Trevor,
The doctor who prescribes the Avapro is nervous about prescribing something that hasn't been tested in children. If you have any information that might help persuade him that Diovan or Benicar would be safe, I would appreciate it. I would love to be able to give my daughter a higher or more frequent dose of minocycline without having the Herxheimer reaction be too unbearable.
Then, about the methotrexate; the eye doctors are justifiably worried about uncontrolled uveitis since it definitely correlates with eye damage, particularly cataract and glaucoma, but also other problems. They have experience treating the symptoms in cases like my daughter's, with steroids, methotrexate, or other immune-suppressants (and sometimes, the patient's uveitis clears up). When there is confirmation of bacterial or viral infection, they use antibiotics or anti-virals along with steroid eye drops. Perhaps we should pursue testing for infection to see if we get information that supports the case for stopping the methotrexate.
We are not working with any doctors who are really thinking about what is going on. The ophthalmologist is honest about what she knows and what she doesn't know, and is willing to support us in getting second opinions, etc. The doctor who prescribes the ARBs and minocycline is willing to learn, but thinking about CWD infections is new to him. The rheumatologists don't know much about sarcoid, or methotrexate in sarcoid patients. I suspect they don't know much biochemistry, either, so don't have the background to understand how methotrexate works, CWD bacteria, etc. We have seen many other specialists, some of whom are better than others, but they all treat as they have been taught to treat, and as everyone else treats.
I'd be ready to cut down on the methotrexate, but would really like a physician to support doing so.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   06-09-03 12:54

Trevor,
The recent increase in inflammation was seen about two weeks after my daughter stopped oral steroids. (She had been taking 1 mg every other day.) As is typical for her, she had increased eye pain before the increased inflammation. She was told to increase the frequency of the steroid eye drops. The pain quickly stopped, and at the next eye exam, the inflammation had decreased.

We started an antibiotic eye ointment about 10 days ago - terramycin. No clear results as yet.

We will be seeing the doctor who prescribes the Avapro and minocycline next week. I will continue to urge him to let us try Benicar. The other doctors are beginning to talk about Enbrel, Remicade, or Cyclosporine. The safety profile for Benicar is far, far better.

I will point out the section in your paper where you mention the role of Benicar in controlling TNF alpha. Any suggestions of other papers which discuss the role of 1,25 dihydroxy vitamin D in causing the differentiation of hematopoetic stem cells to monocyctes and macrophages?

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   06-09-03 13:04

Margo,
The references in our paper deal with 1,25-D as a cytokine and hematopoetic factor. You will need full-texts, though, not just the abstracts. There is a new paper on Angiotensin II which might be helpful.

There is no doubt that steroids are effective at stopping the body's immune response. But they are only useful short-term as the bacteria continue to grow and the patient will eventually relapse. MTX is a poor performer too, when its safety (or danger) profile is taken into account.

Maybe also print out the CDC emerging disease paper again to hit up the bacteria, and don't forget to show them the minocycline in RA guidelines.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Bonnie (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   06-13-03 00:16

I've been reading this thread because I have been having some severe, at least for me, allergy symptoms. After the running nose sneezing part, now I have an ear infection and my hearing is terrible again. This time I'm having some eye problems, they have gotten redder than I have ever seen anyone's eyes. It clears up for a few days and then comes back. The doctor gave me some drops, Alocril. They haven't helped much. I've tried quite a few over the counter eye drops, some of them help a little. I also tried some Simlisan drops. I have been taking Clarenex at night, Claritin D during the day, along with Flonase. I used to take Alegra and Nasonex. I was thinking of trying the Terramycin ointment for my eyes? Would it work if the primary reason for the inflamation is allergies? They are very dry now and feel "gritty". I have some burning too. A friend suggested I take Nettle, an herbal treatment. Would it be safe to try that or any of the other herbal treatments for allergies? I've quit hanging my clothes and towels outside and bought an Ionic Breeze and put it in my bedroom. I can't get rid of my cat, he's 16 yrs old and a good friend. I never used to have allergy symptoms at all.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.232.59.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-13-03 05:41

Bonnie,

Your eye problems may be caused by your sarcoidosis inflammation. You need to stay indoors to avoid sunlight and also avoid all other forms of vitamin D. Have you had your D-metabolites tested? I suspect they are high.

Inflammation of the eye is called uveitis and it is common in immune system diseases.

You can read more about it at www.uveitis.org

Gettting rid of the bacteria that are triggering your sarcoidosis is the only solution. Please let us know how you are doing.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   06-13-03 13:09

Iritis/bactrim question??

i have just returned from the opthamologist. i have an iritis flare in both eyes which i suspected. i explained trevors theory as best i could to my eye doc. she gave me sample topical antibiotic eyedrops (ofloxacin) and an rx for it to go along with bactrim ds. i am to return next week.

is the bactrim dosage the same with active iritis? 800mg every 12 hours for one week? is bactrim to be taken with minocycline? I am due for 100mg minocycline today. I am wondering if an active flare changes the dosage.

thank you
caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.232.59.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-13-03 15:27

Hi Caroline,

I'm sorry to hear about your iritis. It sounds like your opthalmologist got the picture though. Oflaxacin is in the quinolone family so it may have a very weak effect on the CWD microbes. The Bactrim DS (double strength) is a combination of trimethoprim 160mg and sulfamethoxazole 800mg and that is the dosage that Trevor recommends in conjunction with minocycline for short periods of time. He takes it about an hour after the minocycline.

The usual Bactrim DS schedule for infectious treatment is every 12 hours. Trevor prefers an every other day schedule for the Bactrim as well as the minocycline but he encourages creativity. So you have the option of the usual every 12 hr. schedule, or every other day with the minocycline or taking it on opposite days to the minocycline. Taking it intermittently will not cause problems with resistant bacteria growing.

I've taken it on an every 12 hr schedule and every other day. Each time I noticed a significant increase in Herxheimer reaction.

Trevor will correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't think the dosage should be higher when you are having an obvious flare. This is because the flare indicates an elevated level of 1,25-D already. If you increase the dosage of the antibiotics that you can tolerate, you are likely to be very uncomfortable as the level goes even higher.

Take good care,

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   06-15-03 16:29

Tevor:

Have you heard of, or used the anti-oxidant eye drop containing N- acetyl-Camosine
for ocular inflammation and/or catarac? Product is called Can-C

Here are some abstracts:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11390029&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10851037&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12001824&dopt=Abstract

Although I have have good sucess with the Terramycin eye ointment
for the uveitis in my right eye - no red eye - I know I still have some inflammaiton in that eye ( it was a 1 last time on the inflammation scale of 1-4)
I have purchased some of these drops and am going to try them.

As you know, I have had Lyme (and probably still have some bacteria in me somewhere). My Ohpthal. thinks there's cellular debrie in the right eye - kicking off my immune system (post Lyme symdrom aka autoimmune ) and I am not taking the steroid drops he prescibed as they worsen the eye, and cause it to becme red. (The Terramycin eye ointment does not do this, and has kept Red Eye at bay).

I'll let you know how it goes.
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   06-16-03 11:47

Meg,

what topical eyedrop would be more effective than oflaxacin? thank you, caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.232.59.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-16-03 18:37

Hi Caroline,

I'm no expert on eye medications but since oflaxacin is in the fluoroquinolone family, we know it is not particularly effective against Cell Wall Deficient bacteria. We don't really know if antibiotics delivered locally to the eye will help but there has been some discussion in this thread about using tetracycline eye ointment. I believe at least one person is doing that but I don't know if it's been helpful.

Interestingly, I just read a tidbit of medical news in a popular magazine. It reports the potential development of medication saturated 'contact lens'. The rationale for this new product they say is that medication delivered in eye drops ends up going down the nose and into the bloodstream. Only 5% is received by the eye tissues.

This would indicate that the antibiotic probably doesn't work locally. This also points out that any medication put in the eye (steroids) ends up in the blood stream.

I hope that helps,

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   06-16-03 18:55

When you need to use eye drops, it helps to "occlude the punctum" for several minutes after putting the drops in. (This means, to push down on the area between the eye and the bridge of the nose, which is where the eye drains into the nose.) It is believed that this helps decrease the amount of medication that moves into the bloodstream.

When the eye medication is steroid eye drops, people report that they have a decrease in the symptoms associated with steroid use, so probably this does help.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   06-16-03 18:56

Caroline,

My daughter is using a tetracycline eye ointment, in addition to minocycline. She has been using it only three weeks, probably too soon to judge its effectiveness.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   06-16-03 19:32

Lana,

I wrote this in response to your question on another thread, but realized it is really mostly about eye problems, so probably fits better here.

You asked if the methotrexate is helping. It is really a mixed bag. By the time my daughter started the mtx, she was on oral steroids and steroid eye drops, and had already developed a cataract. The eye doctor is sure that the steroids pushed the development of the cataract. (Cataract is also a risk in ongoing uveitis, in the absence of steroids. Sometimes the first sign of uveitis noticed by anyone, especially in little children, is a cataract.) At that point, not knowing about any other treatment, we agreed to beginning mtx. With the mtx, the steroids were tapered, though not decreased completely. We are at a slightly better point (in terms of less steroid use)than we were last summer, before beginning mtx and oral steroids.

Looking at the whole thing, over time, the oral steroids were not at all helpful. While they provided good control of inflammation and digestive symptoms when the dose was higher, after tapering to a lower dose, my daughter was still on the same number of steroid eye drops per day as when she had started the oral steroids. The doctor suggested that the disease had simply become more troublesome, though she agreed that the objective evidence suggested that the oral steroids were not doing any good. At the time, we didn't know that the immune suppressive action of the steroids could, in themselves, make the disease become worse. Two explanations fit: 1) that the steroid use coincided with an increase in the severity of the disease; or 2) that the steroid caused an increase in the severity of the disease (allowing the bacteria to multiply more freely in a body with a suppressed immune system).

We were very hopeful that the mtx would allow a drop to zero steroids. Initially, it seemed we were headed that way. Over time, however, it became less clear. The dose of mtx has been steadily increased since there was always an increase in eye inflammation with too great a decrease in steroids. Most recently, with no oral steroids, one eye had an increase in inflammation, though the other eye held steady. I would say, we have a slight improvement.

The first thing we did that really helped the overall systemic complaints was decrease all dietary vitamin D. (Because of her eye problems, my daughter was already staying out of the sun.) She started to have more energy, and to just feel better.

Then, we convinced the ophthalmologist that testing the vitamin D levels would be helpful. After that, it was a struggle to find someone to prescribe ARBs and minocycline. We finally found a family practitioner with an interest in alternative medicine who was open to new information. He was also suitably concerned by the disease (unlike the rheumatologists).

My daughter is only able to get prescriptions for Avapro now, but we are hoping we can convince the doctor to prescribe Benicar. The Avapro helps the symptoms quite alot. However, it is not as helpful with the Herxheimer when she takes minocycline. She finds the Herxheimer hard to handle (as she is only 12, and also has to contend with 1-2 days a week of feeling poorly after the mtx injection). She is only able to tolerate a partial capsule of 50 mg minocycline.

The Avapro seems to have helped decrease the eye pressure, however. Since the eye pressure can go up with uveitis because of inflammation of the many tubules that drain the eye, it makes sense that Avapro would help.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   06-17-03 13:30

Margo,

i am also going to be prescibed an ointment of the tetracycline family. i had an appt. last friday with my eye doc and will return for follow up this friday. my eye doc also (as does meg) believes that systemic antibiotics are what will be most effective.

i have been on minocycline for six months so i am very dismayed at this recent flare up of iritis. my right eye has suffered visual loss due to iritis in previous years so i am very concerned about my left.

friday evening, after seeing the eye doc., i began 800mg bactrim and have continued it every 12 hours along with my minocyline dose which has been 100mg. this morning i bumped the minocycline to 200mg. i plan on continuing the bactrim until i have had five days dosage.

Good luck to your daughter, I hope this ointment works for her.

sincerely, caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.232.59.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-17-03 16:34

Hi Caroline,

I'm sorry to hear about your recurring eye problems. Remember that the Herxheimer reaction is unique to your symptoms of sarcoidosis. With your history of iritis, the antibiotics may be the cause of your, hopefully temporary, eye inflammation. Perhaps the answer is to back off on the antibiotics and give your eyes a rest. Have you asked Trevor?

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.ORG)
Date:   06-17-03 20:54

trevor,
what are your thoughts as to meg's suggestion that the recent flare up of iritis is herx? i had never considered the possibility. just an exascerbation of one of my symptoms.

today my eye doc called in a script for sulfacetamide drops. she has been very receptive to this approach.

caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   06-17-03 21:07

Caroline,
There is an easy way to tell, Stop the antibiotic for a short while (4 or 5 days) and see what happens to the "iritis".

When I had my "sinus infection" I could have sworn it was a virus, except it stopped when I stopped the minocycline!

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   06-18-03 05:04

This is an interesting discussion.
When I was on the second round antibiotics for Lyme I had an iritis flare
in my right eye and the central vision became cloudy. This central cloudiness was a new symptom for me. I was on 300 mg Doxy/400 to 600 mg Plaquenil.
In vitro, Plaquenil will attack the variant form of the Lyme spirochecte, but the dose is calculated for in vivo from in vitro to be very high - somewhere around 800mg. Plaq. at high doses can raise the ocular pressure in the eye, but I've never had this side effect.

The eye felt like I had a contact lens in that didn't fit well along with muscle pain in the eye when I try to focus close, or look up or down and a really weird sensation of the eye feeling "cold".

After talking to a few Lyme people who also had the same symptom while on abx I went off the abx when the sympom did not subside.
The central couldy-ness cleared up in about a week, and a visit to my Opth. did not show any problem he could detect the week after that. My Opth. couldn't offer up any theories. Eye pressure in both eyes was good
at 13 & 15.

I have also thought that this could have been a herx
within the eye. I guess why not?

The eye herx is something I've worried about with killing the bacteria
in eye structures.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   06-18-03 06:55

barb,
your story sure lends credence to a herxheimer flare. i took the last of a five day course of additional bactrim this norning and will refrain from any abx. for five days and see how the iritis flare resolves.
thank you, trevor, meg and barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   06-19-03 06:04

Caroline:
The majority of my Lyme symptoms were on my right side.
This includes the right eye being much worse than the left (anterior uveitis). My right eye has not be inflammation free since my last round of antibiotics. (I am beginning to beleive this is left over herx - as things drain from the eye so very slowly).

I still have inflammation in the right eye after my last flare, and was using tetracycline eye ointment (Terramycin) which kept Red Eye at bay, and also seemed to be keeping the eye down to a 1 on the inflammation scale.

A week ago I stopped the Terraymcin ointment as I seemed to reach a plateau with it, and I started the
N-Acetyl Carnosine drops which is an non- FDA approved antioxidant eye drop. (The abstracts are listed in a previous post of mine under this thread.)


I can use a microscope here at work, and reflect 2 beams of light in such a way to create a focal point whereby ** I ** can see the cells in my
eye... SO I know ahead of time what's in there before my Dr. does.
As a matter of fact - What I can see in there is obviously more accurate than what he sees with his slit lamp.

In any case - we'll see how this goes.

I'll let you know.
Barb

 
 Sunglasses
Author: Mike (---.res.east.verizon.net)
Date:   06-25-03 12:51

Found some sunglasses that I like today at REI (Polarized SP Glacier Glasses). For $55, they block 100% UV, 95% visible, and 65% IR. The lenses are grey-tinted/polarized and the frames include leather side shields. They transmit enough light to be useful for desk/computer work indoors but block enough light to let me use them for driving. Your milage may vary.

They are also available non-polarized amber tint (90% visible light blocked) for $39.

The frames alone (no lenses) can be had for $16.

Search www.rei.com for "SP Glacier Glasses" to see all three products.

--Mike

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Fernando (212.163.35.---)
Date:   07-09-03 06:07

Trevor,

Yesterday I went with my wife to the ophtalmologist and told her that her eyesight loss of 80% will be permanent, and with future risk of loosing the rest.

He said that she actually has no inflammation but the macula, because of the past inflammations, is almost without irrigation and the optic nerve is touched too.

He doesn´t want to give her any medicine right now because he says there is no active illness, but that we have to be prepared to begin with quimical therapy if necesary (something stronger than cyclosporine, I guess MTX). He said too that the tetraciclines won´t work with her.

Last D-ratio 3 months ago was 2,9. Now she looks beautiful, but I´m afraid that next time she could loose her sight definitely.

Is it posible that the sight loss is permanent? Could any antibiotic do a better job?

Thank you.

Fernando Prieto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-09-03 06:16

Fernando,
He said that the tetracyclines won´t work with her

Why not? What evidence has he to say this? He could be right, but he is denying her a safe drug which, if he is correct, will have no effect, and, if he is not correct, will arrest further opthalmic damage.

If minocycline will "do no harm" then he should be prepared to prescribe it, just in case it does some good. Who knows?

Instead he is talking about cyclosporine and MTX? He has got to be kidding, surely...

I would call him by phone and ask him to reconsider. Make sure you use the words "Do no harm" and ask him why an innocuous drug that just maybe, might, be a help is not something he is prepared to try?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-09-03 13:49

This is for every ones information, as it's just my observations thru my (Lyme) terapy - and my problem with Uveitis.

I am now quite sure abx cause a herx that causes my eye(s) to flare (Uveitis).

My eyes have been clear and quiet for 2 months - taking the 2 months previous to that to quiet down after abx (Doxy/plaq).

Three days ago- I cut right middle tip of the finger in the barn and contaminated the wound. My trip to the ER yeilded a tetnaus shot and a 5 day scrip for Augmentin (amoxicillin-875mf - clavulanate-125mg/ twice per day). This abx is used for Lyme also- but I've never taken it before.

Within 24 hrs , I had a slight fever and felt flu-ish, not knowing whether it was form the tetnaus shot, the wound infecting - or a Lyme herx. AT 48 hrs
both my eyes flared (Red eye, eye pain and pain within the upper nasal passages). THIS is a symptom I recognize! This I had before when killing Lyme with other abx.

This is the double edged sword of abx doing good, but the abx/herx
exacerbating another symptom that's a bad.

Man- I had to make a choice of what to do. I can't go off the abx as this wound is incredibly nasty and has already tried to infect, even on this dose of abx (I had to pack Sugardine on the finger tip under the bandage).

I had to quiet the infalammatory response in the eyes, so I used steroid drops - twice in one day. (That would be today). Tonite I'll use the antioxidant drops and hope thats enough.

This is such a juggling act.
And I obviously still have Lyme bacteria in my body even though I'm feeling great. I suspected as much anyway.

So- the net is - this is the 3rd time abx has caused my eyes to flare.
I don't know if this abx will get to the tissue of the eye or not
- so don't yet know if this is direct bacteria killing in the eyes, OR inflammation due to a herx. I just know now, there's a connection.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-09-03 13:55

2 comments, Barb,
Firstly, the tetanus shot may have given you a reaction. Your immune system may not have liked that

and secondly, I think it would be prudent to assume you may have more than one species of bacteria living in you, something besides the Lyme. You are describing symptoms of a bacteria which hypersensitizes your immune system. I don't think Lyme does that, does it?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-09-03 16:57

Trevor:
I agree I may have more than one species of (bad) bacteria living in me.
And I thought of the possibility of the tetnaus shot sensitising my immune system.

But the symptom of eye flare when on abx happens to other Lyme patients
as well. Now whether it's Lyme or something else I don't know - but it's common. A very large portion of Lymies have Uveitis.

And yes- the Lyme spirochete does sensitize the immune system - although it may be working in concert with another bacteria (who knows).

Many Lymies have chemical sensitivities and allergies. After abx some
people have those symptoms leave (like me) and others do not.

You said it in a previous post - it's possible both diseases are caused by the pathogen(s) - Lyme and Sarc- just different presentations.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-09-03 18:28

Barb,
Yes, but as I give more and more thought to the SARS microbe, and also ponder on the differences between all the various immune diseases I am starting to think that the genetic susceptibility mught be a relatively minor part of the whole equation, with the type of bacteria/virus being responsible for the different diseas presentation.

In SARS the patient is hyper-sensitized by the coronavirus, and the body then destroyed by the inflammatory cascade. This is very similar to Sarc, but subtly different from Lyme (or so I thought). I guess I need to learn more about Lyme in the folks who throw it off, not just the folks that continue to have problems. There may be a clue in the ones that get better... Time will tell, I guess.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Tammy (---.cox-internet.com)
Date:   07-09-03 19:28

Hello,
Since starting the mino, my eyes are acting up again...like every other sarc-infected place in my body! LOL Mostly, my eyes are watering alot ,and are nearly clued together in the morn. I have some Tobramycin drops , and some Tobradex. I read above where you can basically hold your finger below the tear duct. By doing this ,will it help less of the steroid in the Tobradex go systemic and help the eyes eyes heal better/faster? I am also using Flonase... I know, another steroid.. but the inflammation is terrible! Let me know please about the drops if you can. Thanx in advance and have a great night!
~Tammy~

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-09-03 20:06

Tammy,
You will have to drop your antibiotic dosage so as your body continues to function properly.

I know it is hard to juggle the steroid and the ARB and the antibiotic dosages. It is better to err on the side of too little herxheimer, you have to keep your body functioning properly.

..Trevor..
ps: there is nothing you can do to stop the steroid eyedrops geting into your circulation. Even a facecream has been reported as causing avascular necrosis.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   07-10-03 08:37

Trevor:
I had a dramatic improvement in a relatively short time (by Lyme standards) after abx treatment. 99% of my symptoms were gone
after Lyme & Babesia treatment.

With Lyme, there is a percentage of people who do not get a dramatic
improvement with abx, and some seem to have very little improvement.
As a matter of fact, as soon as they stop abx their symptoms return rather quickly. The question with this group is whether theres another bacteria as the root cause that is resistant to the abx being used or if it's Lyme in it's variant form (which is resistant to most abx) or if there's even another unknown component.

There are some Lyme Drs. who beleive that the severe Herx actually sets the person back and worsens the symptoms considerably. But most Lyme
Dr.s have their patients stay on abx thru very severe herx's so consequently the patient body is so overwhelmed, I don't know how anyone can separate out what symptoms are from what.
I agree with your approach - respect the herx and give the body a break.

There are also theroies that Lymies have circulating immune complexes (CIC) that aren't circulating anymore and are accumulating.. i.e. stuck in joints and kidney's and causing (inflammatory) problems of their own untill they are busted up. The German Wobenzym-N is the enzyme of choice for this,. C1q can be baselined, then re-measured after Wobenzyme therapy. I know one person who's Dr. has tracked her C1q, and it indeed was lowered after Wobenzyme and was way over range for several measurments previously.

Osteopenia and Osteoporosis is a big problem with the younger women
with Lyme that don't respond to abx therapy.
I'm 54, and am still in the OK range (don't need any medication YET) but have been dropping a tenth every year for the last 2 years.

Lyme mostly lives in the CNS and tissues, so most people will test NEGATIVE if the test is done pre-abx and they've had it for a while. The conventional diagnostic tests (ELISA titer and Western Blot) are also inaccurate on top of that so most of the time a correct diagnosis doesn't happen

So, if one were to get tested for Lyme - it should be AFTER a course
of abx - as this drives the bacteria out into the blood, where the immune system can ID it, and make some antibodies. Or do PCR, which will pick up the DNA.

What I find intriguing with all of this, is that I've had every single one
of the sarc symptoms except the joint nodules and lung/cardiac involvement. Clinically, I could have been diagnosed just as easily with Sarc - Only difference is I PCR tested + for Lyme and + for Babesia by WB.
I hope I can contribute to this board, as the info here is certainly helping me. I realize it's a Sarc list, so hope you don't mind having a Lyme person on board.


Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-10-03 09:10

Barb,
There is a commonality of symptoms because there is a commonality of cause. SarcInfo welcomes anybody who is suffering from any immune disease.

I would urge you to get your D-metabolites tested, since you are concerned about BMD. High levels of 1,25-D will cause bone loss (here is my recent paper on the issue). Any Th1 inflammation can cause elevated 1,25-D, regardless of the disease presentation.

Conventional antibody titres are generally useless in immune disease, as the reaction is in the tissue, and the bacteria are populating the "white blood cells", monocytes and macrophages, in any case. So the liklihood that WBC will be floating intact in the bloodstream is minimal, IMO. Actually, "conventional" (old-fashioned) immunology is pretty useless as well. We will need whole new generations of new doctors trained with new knowledge, PCR equipment, and up-to-date bacterial DNA charts, before these bacterial diseases will finally be beaten.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-10-03 21:32

Hi Barb,
first, I wanted to jump in here and tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts. Lyme sounds eerily similar to sarc. and your experiences are very informative. your explanation of the 'linear' lessening of sx. helps me keep going.

my more recent sx. have been the first to disappear. my long term sx. keep hanging on and on, that being my legs/walking and iritis. irtitis scares me with the prospect of more vision loss, yet I don't want to live my life being unable to walk and in pain.

my opth. did prescirbe abx. eye drops (two types, i think to humor me) and reiterated that to her knowledge, oral abx. and not abx. eyedrops will 'possibly' clear the eyes. i too, have had to resort to pred forte drops. i hate it, but it has restored my vision a little bit. by that i mean i can see a tad better but if i were able to drive, i wouldn't, even in a familiar area due to my cloudy veiled vision.

I am amazed you responded so quickly to pred drops and am happy for you that only two doses were of help.

best of luck, caroline

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Barb Peck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   07-11-03 08:14

Thank you Caroline.
I know I've learned alot on this list.

I think the diseases are very similar, and this fall, when I see my
Dr. again, I'm going to have the 1,25-D ratio tests run.
I'd hate to think of what the ratio WAS - but am interested to see what it IS now.
I have adjusted a few things in my diet after reading this list regarding
Vit D...

I have alot of theories on the cloudy vision. My eye Dr. didn't seem to have an opinion or reason... I saw him right after a bout of central
cloudy vision in one eye (brought on by abx herx) and he said the cell count in the eye was no different - so didn't have a clue about the central cloudy vision problem.

But I think a possibility could be a change in the viscosity
in either the aqueous or vitreous humor or a portion.. Any change would alter the way light traveled thru this fluid - and change whats called the index of refraction ( how much light bends goinf thru a medium) plus add cells in there (inflammation) and the light
bounces around those cells... so- net result to the brain is dimmer night vision, big halos around lights, cloudy day-time vision.

Since free radicals and hydrogen peroxide are generated - I make sure
I used Alpha-lipoic acid/Vit E/Vit C (400mg/1000IU/500mg) every day
when I'm experiencing a flare for whatever reason.

I've had (diagnosed ) Uveitis for over 10 years and my eye Dr. can't figure out why I don't have either glaucoma or catarac YET.... not because of side-effects of the Steroid drops (because I only use the drops VERY infrequently.) He thinks with the level of inflammation in my eyes, over such a long period should have produced more problems by now.

Once I had so many cells in the vitreous humor that the cells snow-drifted
at the bottom- making it look like black lace hanging down at the top of the vision field.

Maybe I've avoided glaucoma/cataract because of the antioxidants (but who knows for sure)

My eyes are better than they've been in years right now - but I know how fast that can change (for the better or worse.)

I'm still using the controversial anti-oxidant eye drops, and have for a month. I've had no problems with my eyes until I started Augmentin (2g per day) for this finger laceration and had what I think was a 2 day herx. I went immediately back onto the anti-oxidants (including the drops). I stayed on the abx for the finger.
I was on the abx for 5 days (2g/day is max dose for my body weight)

My red eye and pain can come on in a matter of minutes - and if I do the right things - sometimes, especially lately, I've seen it retreat in a matter of hrs. .
I agree - it's very strange. For me, anti- oxidants are a beneficial part of the equation.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-16-03 20:13

Margo:
To answer your question about a herx causing an eye flare - read my post above - 2nd to the last paragraph.

It is my perception after a several repititions on abx for Lyme, that the abx can both improve the eye condition AND bring on an eye flare., which causes confusion in my mind - I don't understand all the mechanisms at work here.

As stated above - 2g of Augmentin for my lacerated finger brought on eye pain, and red eye.

I wish I had more answers...
I was about to post that I had not had an eye flare while on the carnosine drops - then wham - got a flare after 24 hrs on Augmentin.

Augmentin is supposed to have excellent tissue penetration and is the abx of choice for the contaminated laceration I had, so maybe the type of abx has something to do with it. I don't know if Augmentin can cross the blood brain barrier or not - or whether the eye flare was a secondary sympom to the herx.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Tony Liberatore (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-18-03 01:06

I have it in my lungs. Two years ago uvetis cuased a detached retina in my right eye. Two attempts at reattaching failed. On June 19th , 2003 my Opthamologist, Dr. Carlos Martinez agreed to do the cataract surgery on my left eye. He statrted me on a regiment or 40 miligrams of steroids daily and topical steroids along with an antibiotic taken topically qid. The surgery was a success and he followed up the operatios with the same regiment.
After my second Post op visit, he began to ween me off the steroids and antibiotics.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   07-18-03 07:05

Tony L:
What were the antibiotics names? (Topically for the eye, and oral . )

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.212.intrex.net)
Date:   08-16-03 14:15

Barb,

How have you found the N-Acetyl Carnosine drops?

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   08-16-03 16:35

Margo:

I've been using them every night.
My eyes have been good now for 2 solid months - with the exception of when I took Augmentin (2 g/day) for a lacerated finger, and that only lasted a few days. I used the Terramycin eye ointment and 1 steroid drop for 2 nights, and the red eye receeded.

I see my ophthal in the middle of Sept.. but I can tell they're better.
I had "bumps" in the white scelera on the medial side of my right eye, which
are almost gone. So I'm optimistic. I have had terrible problems with theright eye (more than the left) , so 2 months without a problem is trending the right way.

I'll post again after my appointment.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: MICHAEL NEWBY (---.server.ntl.com)
Date:   08-18-03 07:03

My name is Michael I live in the U.K. and was first diagnosed with Sarcoid induced Uveitis in 1989.The affected eye would start to fill up with floaters then the vitreous would go cloudy reducing vision by 40 to 50%. The only effective treatment was oral steroids starting on a high dose of 40 to 50mg daily reducing gradually to 5mg as the flare up subsided. Over the years I have been prescribed prednisolone, deflazacorte, azathioprene, and cyclosporin together with topical eye drops such as predforte and maxidex. As a result I now suffer from cataracts and osteoporosis. I am taking Alendronate for the osteoporosis and it has certainly slowed down the progress of the disease.
During the past 6/9 months the cataracts developed to a degree that I was no longer able to drive, read or watch television. It was decided to operate on the right eye in June but both eyes were red and inflamed and the surgeon cancelled the operation three times because of the risk of postoperative infection. I then found this web site, started staying out of the Sun, cut down on my vitamin D intake, started taking Doxycycline 100mg alternate days and Diovan 80mg every 8 hours. Within 12 days the inflammation cleared up and the operation went ahead successfully on 18th July. The improvement in the quality of life was quite dramatic and in a state of euphoria I decided to start the difficult process of weaning myself off steroids. I was down to 2mg per day when disaster struck a sudden and severe flare up of Uveitis. Fortunately the left eye was the worst but there was no alternative other than to increase the Prednisolone to 30mg per day in an effort to bring the Uveitis under control as quickly as possible.
I am convinced that the Doxycycline and the Diovan were instrumental in clearing up the red eye when all else failed and am not prepared to give up on them yet. Have considered increasing the dose of Doxycycline to 100mg every day but have no medical knowledge and would appreciate any help or advice which may be relevant to this situation. Please do not ask for my D-metabolite readings as this is a sore point in the U.K. They do them in batches and the demand is so small that I will be lucky if I get these by October.
Regards Michael

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-18-03 07:22

Michael said "Please do not ask for my D-metabolite readings as .. They do them in batches .. and I will be lucky if I get these by October.

I ask for the D data because it is the most reliable indicator of inflammatory status. Without it I am only guessing at what your overall sitaution is like, and whether it is getting better or worse. Although I do understand the situation whereby the UK is a decade behind the US on understanding the importance of these measurements, that retardation exists only in clinical medicine. You have had some of your top scientists involved in understanding the role of 1,25-D in our bodies.

However, I do sympathize, Belinda and I have both been mauled when we tried to tell the BMJ that they were making a BIG mistake by continuing to publish studies which ignored 1,25-D.

Alendronate is a recent drug. Its long term effects on the body are unknown, even the exact mechansim by which the biphosphonates cause bone to grow is largely unknown. Their effect on the rest of the body is largely unknown. I know Doc might like to focus on things he thinks he understands, but you should insist that your eyes get top priority. I would not use Alendronate unless everything else was stable, especially my eyes. See my tutorial on Calcium and Vit D above.

It is great that you were able to get the Diovan and the Doxycycline though! I would suggest the addition of Bactrim or changing to Minocycline. Both are methods of trying to get better eye penetration. In our latest paper "Antibiotic in Sarcoidosis" we give a reference to a study which took pictures of the CWD bugs inside the immune cells from the vitrous (clear fluid in the eye). Doc might also be interested in looking at the pictures in that reference (Wirostko et al). I will have some of their pictures on line in a few days, courtesy of Ms Wirostko.

It is normal to get relapse when weaning off steroids. If Doc doesn't recognize it as relapse then you are on a slippery downhill slope.

Anyway, good work to get to this point, you and Doc should be able to resolve things from here

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.212.intrex.net)
Date:   08-20-03 20:47

Trevor,

I received a suggestion from an ophthalmologist who uses antibiotics to treat uveitis to use azythromycin. Any thoughts about azythromycin and sarcoid? She also mentioned that it could be used in conjunction with minocycline, and in low doses.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.dsl.dock.net)
Date:   08-20-03 22:00

Margo,
Azithromycin is on my list of likely abx candidates (for testing). I would recommend you talk to Doc about adding it to the Minocycline. I have a paper around here somewhere showing it is active against the mycoplasmas and has a complementary spectrum to minocycline.

Safety is not too bad, but I would want to intermittently dose it. A mouse experiment I came across last weekend showed that mice without an immune system did not respond to (mycoplasmal) antibiotic therapy, only those with a weakened or functioning immune system. Clearly the dead bugs have to be cleared away from the tissue during the "rest" days.

Azithromycin appeared similar to Clarithromycin, but maybe it has a better ability to penetrate the eyes, I just don't know. And I can't test that, because my eyes are fixed already. Barbara clearly has the experience to guide us on this, and I would take her advice...

..Trevor..
ps: I will put in some links to those papers when I clear my desk...

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Lowelle Messner (---.73.183.237.dial1.chicago1.level3.net)
Date:   08-21-03 04:03

Trevor,

I, too, was told that I could no longer get terramycin, however I did see 2 tubes of it at my local tack store. Apparently, it is still made for use in horses!

My pharmacist asked my Doc to prescribe Bacitracin (?) in place of terramycin. He said that it is similar to terramycin and is not a steroid.

Have you heard of this one? Do you think it would be helpful? I don't want to start something that would cause a set back.

Thanks for your help.
Lowelle

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   08-21-03 06:04

Michael:

I can relate.
I have had Uveitis in varying dregrees for over 10 years -
considered auto-immune untill I tested positive for Lyme and Babesia -
Uveitis means inflammation anywhere along the uveal tract, and has other more specific names depending on where the inflammation is located.

About the Terramycin eye ointment - if it's made by Pfizer then it is FDA approved for humans- even though it's sold for animals in thsi country. It's the one I use.

I have found that abx can be a double edged sword when it comes to inflammation of the eye.
Doxycycline most definitely completely pushed the inflammation into remission by killing Lyme bacteria...
BUT at a point of high accumulated inflammation from herheimer reaction (and I've had alot of them while on abx) it actually bring on Red eye and eye pain ( Uveitis ) - and a few times cause central vision cloudiness when my Ohpth. could see nothing wrong with the eye.
I've also had the typical neuro Lyme ocular symptoms - which seem to manifest thru the eye, but are suspected to be brain problems (flashing lights - flickering portions of the vision field, etc)

My Ohpth. does not understand why I haven't developed cataract, or glaucoma, especially in the right eye which has been at the top of the inflammation scale several times - and so full of immune cells (in the vitreous humor) that the cells snow drifted at the base of the chamber and interferred with my vision.

Steroids, immunosuppressives (including Methotrexate) are about the only drugs an Opthal. will prescribe unless they see signs of ACTIVE infection. And even under duress I have siad not to the steroid injections into the eyes he's wanted to do.

I was (almost) banned recently - and got an electronic tounge lashing
from the Dr. who Moderates the Uveitis.org list - for my dissenting opinion
on blindly trusting immunosupressive chemotherapy for idiopathic Uveitis.
This is the premiere eye/ear infirmary on the East Coast and they don't
understand slow growing bacteria either (and seem quite closed to any discusiion on it).

Steroid drops in the eye are available to the body systemically (bioavailable) - 1 drop every 2 hrs for 24 hrs. is about the equivalent of 7- 10mg orally.

I certainly cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I've done.

I only use the steroid drops sparingly and only with the Pfizer Terramycin ointment.

Orally I take a fair amount of antioxidants (and have been using an anti-oxidant eye drop - N-acetyl Carnosine). I am not on abx right now, but when I was on them - had to juggle them with ibuprofen (anti-inflammatory) to control the herx becuase of the effects on the eye. Anti-oxidants become a free radical themselves eventually- so I don't over do it.

I weigh 125 lbs. and when I took Doxy, I took 300mg per day, which is maximum for my body weight. The second round was mixed with high dose plaquenil -and
I know Trevor does not recommend this drug for Sarc (and I agree with him) - but for me it works very well when mixed with abx and I have an amazing tolerance for it without increasing ocular pressure. I have not used it for extended periods of tiem though.

The bottom line with the eye is that if immune cells are in the anterior/vitreous chamber (Uveitis), it takes forever for them to get out of there thru the tiny angle of the eye. It's their presence in the vitrous that causes the light to reflect and diffract differently so the result is halos around lights , etc and it can also cause higher itraocular pressure.

I think Minocycline sounds like the drug I'll use next (to get the neuro lyme- eye problems) I see my Alt. Dr. in Sept. and will discuss this. It has almost no sun-sensitivites as compared to Doxy - and penetrates tissues deeper.
(And here's hoping my violent herx days are over).

This site has helped me understand inflammation in more depth than I did before (and how to control it better) . Lyme and Sarc have so many overlapping symptoms, that I can harldy tell them appart.

I'm happy with my progress... but have a way to go to reach the bugs (which are probably in variant form) that I think may still be causing a few lingering neuro symptoms.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Bonnie (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   08-21-03 06:18

I also have been using the tarramycin ointment and it helped clear up the redness in my eye. I have had more problems with my ears from "allergy" symptoms. My ears swell up inside and I lose quite a bit of hearing. My ears were ringing very loudly and I could constantly hear my heart beating in them. I had ear drops but the symptoms worsened every time I used them. I decided to try the tarramycin ointment in my ears by putting some on a Qtip. It has been working great. It has helped the swelling, itching, and the loss of hearing. Is there any danger in doing this?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.dsl.dock.net)
Date:   08-21-03 06:27

Lowelle,
I had never heard of anything special about Bacitracin, and the standard info on it does not mention CWD or mycoplasma because the abx is half a century old and came out before mycoplasma and CWD were discovered.

But I would suggest you ask Doc to try it. I have found a few studies where it has specific actions on CWD bacteria, and it could prove to be a very effective abx for sarc eyes indeed. I just don't know. Anyway, I would ask Doc if you could try it and see what happens.

Barb,
That uveitis.org moderator person who thinks he knows all about uveitis needs to talk with Dr Barbara Wirostko. She is one of the authors on the 1989 study at Columbia University that photographed CWD in immune cells from the vitreous of the eye. She recently wrote saying that she has used abx for uveitis routinely, with good effect, but has found stiff resistance from certain other opthalmologists. It probably wouldn't hurt to point out the above study and suggest that the moderator of that group contact Dr Wirostko to discuss the issues. The study was very definitive, photographing CWD inside every type of cell involved in Sarcoidosis immune reactions, and the cells were extracted from the vitreous. You really can't get much more definitive that that...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.dsl.dock.net)
Date:   08-21-03 06:36

Bonnie,
I have had tinnitus for nearly 30 years, since my left ear was hit by a fragment of an anti-tank grenade and blocked by congealed blood for 6 months.

I now have full hearing back in my left ear, for the first time in 30 years, and the remaining tinnitus is hardly noticeable (and I am working on finding an abx to get rid of it totally).

My ear cleared up at about month 8, after I went to 200mg minocycline supplemented with Bactrim DS and daily hot-tub soaks.
In other words - the ear bugs were pretty hard to hit, but, when hit, they died off within days. It was an incredible change to hear properly through both ears again... and have the tinnitus go away as well...

So, when your herx dies down to the point where you too can work on clearing up these hard-to-get tissues, I am sure you, too, will get rid of that tinnitus..

My eyes returned to normal before the ears. I was using systemic 100mg minocycline/bactrim DS and hot-tub soaking at the time my eyes cleared up. My vision suddenly dropped, and I started tripping over things in the hallway. After removing my dark glasses I found my eye sensitivity was 'normal' again...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Judy, Idaho (---.coldreams.com)
Date:   08-21-03 07:29

Trevor,
As I look to the future on rx, do I understand you right in this thread that the best drug to add with the minocin (after I have been on it for more time since I have only gotten up to that dose recently x 5 treatments qod) would be the bactrim ds since I still have some floaters and tinnitus( the sound is getting less...I am happy say!!)I need to get my md to be thinking about this now so he can think about this. I wanted to share this, I just got my new glasses yesterday and they are the new Transitions lens. They are very nice. They change so they are right in any light and that also helps when I am in doors. Have 100% automatic UV protection. I didn't get the coating for the glare problems I had in the past going to try these and see, they are suppose to cut the glare too, but will see I do have alot of problem with glare but as I go up on the minocin I notice that is getting better, would like to get away from that coating if at all possible so hard to keep clean......
Have a great day,
Judy

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.dsl.dock.net)
Date:   08-21-03 07:44

Judy,
Unfortunately it is not UV which affects the eyes of a Sarc patient. They are sensitive to ALL light, and only the IR/visible/UV protective lenses (such as those from NoIR and Zeiss) will protect them. However, the transitions lenses will be fine once you get your eyes back to normal.

Zeiss make an equivalent of transition lenses in a plastic sunglass lens, which is what I have been using indoors, but I had to use the single vision when I was driving because they were glass, and the only ones that protected properly against IR (except for the NoIR lenses, of course)

I used 1 tab Bactrim DS with the minocycline (qod) for about 1 week in every 6 and soaked in the hottub to bring my temp up from 96.8ish to 99.8ish when I was trying to get the abx into my eyes and ears. It worked. I cannot say what will work for you. One study showed that a 2 degree rise in body temperature increased the effectiveness of abx by 16 times... your mileage may vary...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   08-21-03 08:03

Trevor:

I've been active on several Lymelists (European and US) and eye problems with Lyme are considered neurolyme symptoms. Some are thought to be brain-manifesting as visoin problems - but with constant inflammation being the damaging mechansim to structures of the eye itself.

Zithro, biaxin, bactrim, rocefin, cleftin, Doxy, Mino, Plaquenil, Amoxy and flagyl are all abx used in for Lyme.. but at much much higher doses than you would use them for Sarc. They are used in combo at very high doses also.
There are many eye problems for Lymies both on and off abx.
Most of the Lyme Drs. send their patients with eye problems to Ophthal.
but the Ohpthal. treat the eye problems with steroids (beleiving in post abx auto immune problems).

Flagyl is supposed to be able to kill the cyst (variant) form of Lyme -
but it has very bad side effects (especially tendon weakness). But I know a few people who taken it for 14 days (short therapy in Lyme terms) with very good sucess. But the long term Lyme people on flagyl have had some problems with side effects-
And it starts to get confusing separating out symptoms after opportunistic
fingi/bacteria start to proliferate causing similar symptoms to what were being treated in the first place.

SO for eye problems - the solution to me seems somewhere inbetween
using an abx that penetrates the CNS AND gets the varaint form AND
has bearable side effects AND does not do further damage to the eye.

It's a juggling act and it's not easy.

And it's complicated by Dr.s that look at you as just an Eyeball, or just a set of Lungs, or just a Kidney....

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.dsl.dock.net)
Date:   08-21-03 08:13

Barb,
Some doctors tend to be pretty haphazard in selecting antibiotics. And then they increase the dosage if the ABX does not work - very silly, IMO.

Before I use an abx I want to know EXACTLY what it does and how it does it, and I will NOT use an abx at an elevated dosage. So I disagree violently with the Lyme doctors you are quoting, and I would NEVER use that kind of therapeutic approach. The Bactrim/Minocycline bi-therapy which I used has proven effective throughout my body, without side effects of any kind. Both abx are dosed at very low, safe, dosages.

As I said, Dr Barbara Wirsotko has been using ABX for decades. She is still practicing as an Opthalmologist. She does not blindly believe in steroids. She has seem the Sarc bugs with her own eyes when she was at Columbia University (through an electron microscope).

I tend to trust her judgment above all others.

..Trevor..
ps: besides which, I agree with her

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   08-21-03 08:23

Bonnie:

I have done a ton of research on Pfizers Terramycin eye ointment.
There's alot of literature out there on it as it's used in 3rd world countrys
instead of oral abx (it's so cheap as compared to oral abx).
It is used quite safely in developing countries every day for periods up to 6 months and has also been used for 1 week out of every month for longer periods of time.

Personally, I don't see any reason it couldn't be used in the outer ear canal as you're doing.....

It would be VERY interesting to know if it's the polymyxin B (some antifungal properties) or the Tetracycline that's helping the ear infection..... Or if you need their synergistic action.

You could try some monistat 7 cream on a Qtip and se if that works as effectively as the eye ointment -
I'd probably try that just to see if I could narrow the offending organism down.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   08-21-03 11:12

Ths was discussed on the Lymelist previously - some wondering whether this was related to herxing, but incorrectly interpreted as an abx side-effect.
There are quite a few of us that have had extremely bad dreams (or daytime hallucinations) or strange multi-toned tinnitus on various abx.

Personally - with me it took some time for this to happen, indicating to me the abx was finally getting somwhat deeper and they were neuro symptoms (or neuro herx). I would think that if it was drug side-effect it would have shown up pretty quickly.
(But I don't know for sure of course - just guessing based on my own experience)

REFERENCED ABSTRACT.

J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2002 Feb;22(1):71-81. Related Articles, Links

Antimicrobial-induced mania (antibiomania): a review of spontaneous reports.

Abouesh A, Stone C, Hobbs WR.
Southern Virginia Mental Health Institute, Danville, VA 24541, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11799346&dopt=Abstract

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   08-21-03 19:31

Trevor:

Please understand I am not saying the Lyme Drs. have it right (high doses
of abx- long term).

I agree totally with your approach to Sarc/abx/herx/inflammation and plan on applying it to Lyme. I hope I made that point.

I agree with your approach to target the variant form of slow growing bacteria (spirochete or not) with Bactrim/mino. as it just makes so much sense.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Lowelle Messner (---.73.183.189.dial1.chicago1.level3.net)
Date:   08-22-03 03:40

Trevor,

I started on the Bacitracin last night. Herx was definitely there! My eyes felt much the way that they did when I first started the Sarc symptoms. So, I took a Benicar earlier than usual and it helped.

I will continue on this course and give you any results that might be helpful.

Have a nice weekend!
Lowelle

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: MICHAEL NEWBY (---.cvx1-c.man.dial.ntli.net)
Date:   08-22-03 04:18

Hello Trevor,
Thank you for your quick response to my post. I am trying to understand the exact situation with my eyes and wonder if you can answer a couple of questions. As mentioned in my previous post I have suffered from sore, blood shot and watery eyes for a number of years and the right eyelid had taken on a pronounced droop. After only twelve days on Doxycycline, Diovan and protecting my eyes from the Sun all the external inflammation disappeared and the droopy eyelid reverted to normal. This seemed almost like a miracle cure. Since then I have had a severe flare up of Uveitis in the left eye but there is no external inflammation. The eyes look perfectly normal.
1. Is the external inflammation due to 1,25D?
2. Are the cells in the vitreous bacteria, granuloma, 1,25 D or all three?
3. Is 1,25 D produced in the vitreous and if so would this indicate that ARB barrier is not 100% effective?
4. Would increasing the Doxycycline from 100mg every 48 to every 24 hours increase the effectiveness? I have had no herxeimer reaction.

Doc would not prescribe Minocycline says it is a very powerful and dangerous drug. Tried it on patients with acne where it affected the eyes. Made them very ill!
Regards Michael

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   08-22-03 05:01

Michael:

Read some of my posts above on this thread - it seems you may be experiencing what I've been talking about from my experience.

The abx is a good thing because it's killing bacteria, but it's possible the herx may be exacerbating the Uveitis -

When you say you've had a severe flare of Uveitis - but no external inflammation - what do you mean by that? (I'm guessing no red eye, but there's eye pain, and maybe cells inside the eye?)

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: MICHAEL NEWBY (---.cvx1-b.lee.dial.ntli.net)
Date:   08-23-03 03:05

Barb,
Sorry I did not make myself clear. There is no red eye or pain in my left eye but the vitreous has filled up with cells and is cloudy reducing vision in that eye by 40/50%.
Michael

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Lowelle Messner (---.73.187.142.dial1.chicago1.level3.net)
Date:   08-25-03 13:25

Trevor,

I need an opinion about the Bacitracin. I tried to follow the directions for use, which is 3x per day. The herx in my eyes was horrible, so I quit using it.

My question is : Do you think that I should just try using it on the same schedule as the Minocycline? That way, it would give my eyes a chance to release the toxins and have a recovery period. Correct?

I want to improve my eyes, not make them worse.

Any suggestions will be welcome.

Lowelle

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-25-03 13:32

Lowelle,
There was a recent experiment in mice which showed that the immune system is critical to the effectiveness of CWD antibiotic therapy. By inference, it is critical to allow time for the tissues to quench between any therapy of CWD bacteria, in my opinion.

Ask Doc if you can try every 48 or 72 hours and see if that eases the problem (print the above study for him to consider).

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   08-25-03 16:44

Lowelle:

Are you seeing an Ophthalmologist?
What are the eye symptoms?

Both eyes? Red eye? Halo's around lights? Right or left sided Headaches?
Do you have pain upon eye movement (looking right left or up and down?)
Do the eye(s) feel swollen or like there's an ill fitting contact lense or other foreign body over the central part of the vision?
If you look at a pure white wall, or the cloudless sky, do you see very small dots like a period at the end of a sentance - all over?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Lowelle Messner (---.73.184.183.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)
Date:   08-26-03 04:06

Barb,

Since I started having Sarc symptoms, five years ago, both eyes have been constantly red. The right eyelid has been red and swollen, as well. The Opthamologist has contributed the red eye, to not producing enough tears. Adding the extra tears drops relieves the problem for a couple of hours, but then it always comes back. When I got the bacitracin, I followed the directions of 3x perday. It produced an extreme amount of herx, so I stopped over the weekend.

I have had floaters for the last 5 years, especially in my right eye. The first time that I noticed them, it really scared me. My husband and I were driving to Boston, when I looked up at a particularly interesting cloud and there they were. My husband said for me not to be worried, because everyone "of a certain age" gets them. What I didn't know was that this was a symptom of Sarc.

My Opthamologist has found "old scar tissue" in the back of my right eye, presumably from Sarc. This was seen with a slit lamp eye exam, which was done recently. The dilation of my right eye never changes, so it looks like I have had some sort of head injury (my left eye is always dilated much more, than my right one).

I used to have right or left sided headaches several times a month, until I started taking Benicar. I haven't had one in months. Yea!

Trevor,

I believe that I am correct in saying that the minocycline doesn't help much with the eyes, ears or sinus, so we decided to see if the bacitracin would help my eyes. There is very obvious herx involved, because the symptoms do get worse. Since the eyes are connected to the sinus cavity, I can actually feel some of the meds get down into them, too.

Therefore, I will ask my Doc about the 48 to 72 hour use.

Thanks for the prompt replys.
Lowelle

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   08-26-03 05:30

Lowelle:

SO by herx you mean an increase of Dry eye, Red eye, and swollen right eye lid?

Who is the manufacturer of the Bacitracin? Is it an ointment or a drop
and what exactly is in it besides bacitracin?

It seems odd to me that an ointment or drop would exacerbate those eye symptoms.

Did you try the Terramycin ointment?
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-26-03 06:13

Lowelle,
You are wrong saying that Minocycline is not good for the eyes, ears and sinuses. Minocycline alone worked miracles with my own eyes, ears and sinuses - but it took time - 6 months to 'get around to' fixing the sinuses.

But to get every vestiage of bugs out of them I had to add Sulfa/Trimeth for periods and Clarithromycin at other times. But Minocycline was the workhorse. Neither of the Sulfa/Trimeth or the Clarithromycin were effective without it. The two abx combinations were the winner...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   09-15-03 06:04

I am interested in how peoples Uveitis is going...

Is there anything to report from anyone?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Bradley (---.eburwd1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
Date:   09-15-03 06:52

Trevor et al,

I'm fishing for opinions after a good news/bad news week.

I was actually thinking the sarc had gone quiet as my lung test results had shown improvement. This afternoon I went to my opthalmologist because of a problem with a flashing light in my R eye. He says I have inflamation in my eye pushing up the retina which could lead to retinal detachment. I'm having a "field test" done in a couple of days to see if there are any blind spots, and we'll be discussing the results and treatment at the end of the week. Some possible treatments outlined at the initial consultation were laser, steroids or just keeping an eye on it (sorry

Hopefully it will be minor and not need treatment but if he recommends steroids I'd be reluctant to refuse without a solid alternative therapy to suggest.

I've shown some of your papers to my regular quartet of doctors (eye, lung, skin & GP) but they defer to the lung man who is the sarcoid expert. His opinion is that it's interesting but he's too concerned about litigation to consider it and won't deviate from the conventional treatments.

The good news is I have a friend who is a doctor and is happy to go along with the protocol. I had blood taken for the tests as per your FAQ today but results probably won't be back for weeks, Oz being the way it is.

I've just finished a week of Amoxyl followed by a week of Doxycycline (100mg daily) trying to knock out a sinus problem. I was expecting some reaction to the Doxy but didn't notice anything much worse than usual and was a bit disappointed. Is this unusual?

I'd value any advice on the eye issue. e.g. could ARBs be effective in reducing the inflamation? Should I start on minocycline before the test results are back?

Thanks for your work,

Bradley.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   09-15-03 07:08

Bradley,
"if he recommends steroids I'd be reluctant to refuse without a solid alternative therapy to suggest"

I would suggest thinking about it from the other angle - is it certain that steroids will improve your long-term eyesight? What is certainly proven is that the steroid injections will bring on cataracts... So that is the question I would ask, a slight twist on the way you are thinking about it...

Doxycycline didn't give me any herx when I tried it (recently), and it really didn't seem to be killing bugs. Minocycline was still killing them. On the other hand, folks who are starting out on therapy report that Doxy is OK initially, so I guess it is only hitting some of the bug species...

I am sitting here with bleary red inflamed eyes (well, actually just the eyelids are inflamed). I have been "guinea-pigging" an antibiotic suggested by Dr Barabara Wirostko, who was one of the authors on this paper. Considering I have been using Minocycline for over a year it is amazing what this has done to me. It is called Azithromycin. Ask Doc about it. I am sure you have it in Australia. The combination with Minocycline seems to do the trick...

ARBs are proven effective at reducing retinopathy in Diabetes, IMO they should have at least the same effect in Sarcoidosis.

..Trevor..
ps: I had no bugs in my eyes any more - or at least that is what I thought
pps: BE CAREFUL WITH THE HERX, THOUGH - This combination is potent - start at a low dose

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   09-15-03 10:47

Trevor:

I don't remeber if you had Uveitis diagnosed with your Sarc (Can you refresh my memory?)

Are you experiencing an eye herx (or Uveitis?)

I read these papers which indicates a percentage of people experience Uveitis on certain abx, which I suppose could be herx in the eye.

Zithro (and Clarithromycin) are both popular drugs for Lyme.

Do you think Zithro/Mino is better than Mino/Bactrim for tissue penetration?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   09-15-03 11:39

Barb,
Are you experiencing an eye herx?

YES

Do you think Zithro/Mino is better than Mino/Bactrim for tissue penetration?

YES, much better

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Bradley (---.objectmastery.net)
Date:   09-15-03 18:11

Trevor,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I'm not anticipating my opthalmologist would suggest injectected steroids, more likely a short course of oral pred until the inflamation settles down. My concern is avoiding near term blindness while I get started on the longer term process of clubbing the bugs to death with minocycline etc. Sound reasonable?

I'll follow up the Azithromycin also.

Cheers and thanks again,

Bradley.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   09-16-03 21:36

Trevor:


1) Ocular levels of azithromycin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9869792&dopt=Abstract

2) Ocular penetration of oral clarithromycin in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9867340&dopt=Abstract

3) Ocular penetration of orally administered minocycline:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=556140&dopt=Abstract

4) Penetration of trimethoprim and sulphamethoxazole into the aqueous humour.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=4425641&dopt=Abstract

I was unable to obtain the #4 abstract - mybe you can?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   09-17-03 00:45

Barb,
The Sulfa/Trimeth paper is an old one, from the 1970s, and there is not abstract in Pubmed yet, just a title. Many old papers are like this - the Pubmed indexing looks so inviting but is not yet completed.

The paper that I was working through at the weekend is this one:
Interference of Antibacterial Agents with Phagocyte Functions: Immunomodulation or "Immuno-Fairy Tales"?
http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/13/4/615

It is really complex, but is one of the best texts I have found which describes exactly how each of the antibiotics actually works...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.co.us.ibm.com)
Date:   09-18-03 05:13

Thanks so much Trevor.
I've printed out the PDF version.
B

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: DJ (---.27.98.82.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net)
Date:   09-21-03 17:28

I am hoping one you eye-savvy Sarcies can help me with some information. I have a second appointment scheduled soon with my opthamologist. Last time he examined my severely inflamed and sore eyes, he said I needed trifocals, had some dry eye and gave me some artificial tears.

I was wondering what tests are specifically indicated for sarc? He did use his little PDA to research it while I was in the chair, and did the usual eye exam routine. Have any of you had a major change in eye glass prescription as a result of sarc? I went from better than 20-20 to trifocals in about 18 months (when my sarc symptoms surfaced) - doc says this is a coincidence.

My eyes are not sore anymore (except for occasional herx) but I want to make sure I am not missing anything.

Thanks,

DJ

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Anita D. Haynes (---.lvcablemodem.com)
Date:   09-21-03 19:12

DJ,

I have worn glasses since 5th Grade. But my vision could be corrected w/lenses until last Summer. Currently, the big E on the eye chart is my only friend. The other letters are a fond memory. I went in to have my glasses changed last August and I was declared legally blind by February. I think I read that if the degradation of vision is really quick, there is a better chance of recovering (or is this wishful thinking). I got up close glasses from the State's Dept of Services for the Blind. I think they just cut down two magnifying glasses so they would fit in the frames I chose. I am quite color-blind now also. I am only on the Pred eye-drops (about a year now)and yes,I have developed a cataract in the eye I started using the drops in. Recently, the Doc told me to use the drops in my good eye. All of my lung and liver tests show no probs. I do have the eklevated D and calcium levels.

So yes, this can happen very quickly. Maybe that's good because we don't have time to stress over losing our eyesight. Hang in there.

Anita

Love a Librarian!

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   09-21-03 20:47

DJ,

Sarcoidosis can cause various eye problems, many of which are rarely, if ever, seen by the average ophthalmologist. In addition, it is always possible that something else is going on besides sarcoidosis. I would try to see another ophthalmologist if you have unanswered questions. There are specialists in ocular inflammatory disease who are more familiar with sarc-related eye disease. They may not know how to treat it, but at least it will help to find out if the eye problems are sarc-related, or from something else.

There is a good site with information about some eye problems, www.uveitis.org (and a related discussion forum on EZ board - pub24.ezboard.com/buveitissupportmeei). They suggest printing out a picture of the eye, (available in the glossary at www.uveitis.org), and taking it to the doctor. Ask the doctor to point out exactly where in the eye any problems are located. Also, get specific descriptions, such as vision (ie, 20/20, or 20.40, or whatever), near vision, and pressure. Sarc-related eye inflammation can cause dry eyes. I don't know about experiencing a need for trifocals, however.

The www.uveitis.org site will not discuss the antibiotic/ARB treatment for sarcoidosis. They emphasize immune-suppressive treatment for ocular inflammatory disease. However, you can get questions answered about causes of inflammatory eye problems, and how serious they are.


Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: DJ (---.27.98.201.dial1.denver1.level3.net)
Date:   09-22-03 08:50

Thanks Anita & Margo - I will check out that site and also start looking for a new doctor, a second opinion certainly would not hurt!

DJ

 
 Re: pharmacokinetics of ciprofloxacin ophthalmic solution USP
Author: ravi (61.11.48.---)
Date:   09-23-03 22:29

Dear sir,
please provide the full details regarding the ciprofloxacin ophthalmic solution USP.
The details are listed below.............
1) Toxicity
2) Experimental pharmacology
3) pharmacokinetics
could you please kindly provide the all necessary details as early as possible.

Thanks&Regards
kavuru ravi kishore babu.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   09-23-03 23:56

Kavuru,
the information you need is at this link

I would be wary of using a quinolone in sarcoidosis as they cause tendons to tear away from bone and other structure. This problem is exacerbated by corticosteroids.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Pippit (---.asm.bellsouth.net)
Date:   10-12-03 01:04

Hello everyone,

I saw a new Opthamologist last week to have my right eye checked out. About 2 years ago my original opthamologist noticed a raised area on the edge of my iris. She had a close-up picture of it taken but still did not know what it was and only told me to have it checked periodically to be sure it wasn't growing any bigger. She moved out-of-state, so I had to see a new one to have it followed up. I asked the new doctor whether she thought it was related to my Sarcoidosis. She looked at it with a slit lamp and said that it didn't look like it to her even though it was raised; that if it were granulomas it would look more like a definite nodule. She described it as a kind of mole on my eyeball and told me that she would be more apt to think it cancerous than granulomatous if it changed size or color in the future. She said that I have 20/20 vision and that if it were Sarc in the eye would likely be reduced overall; but that I was having a problem focusing because of age and that I should get reading glasses. She said that I would have trouble with mid-range sight within 10 years and that I currently have some near and far difficulty. She told me that all 3 problems were seperate and that she didn't think that my fluctuation in sight was significant in terms of being connected with inflammation. Her diagnosis of the raised area was something called, "Ins Nevus". Has anybody heard of that?

Pippit

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   10-12-03 10:08

Pippit,

Maybe the diagnosis you are talking about is Iris Nevus? Another name for Iris Nevus is Cogan-Reese Syndrome. This information says iris nevus is detected with a slit lamp exam and can be monitored with photos for any changes.

Belinda

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   10-17-03 14:27

Trevor,

My daughter is on minocycline and azithromicine, and Benicar (and methotrexate and steroid eye drops.) She has cataracts in both eyes, and will need cataract surgery in the right eye this winter, say in January or February. (With her right eye, she can only see the big E on the eye chart.) We are hoping that she will still see 20/30 with the left eye at the time of surgery, to make the overall recovery easier on her. (If we wait too long, she won't be seeing much out of either eye, as the cataract in the left eye is progressing.)

Typically, a bolus of steroid is used around the time of cataract surgery. In uveitis patients, some extra anti-inflammatory is also used (or is at least in reserve) since there is increased risk of inflammation that will compromise the surgeryand healing. With our doctors, we need to research possibilities. Some drugs that have been mentioned are Remicade, oral steroids, or cyclosporine. There are pretty strong negatives associated with all of these drugs. I'm trying to learn all I can to see what may be best in this situation. Other immune-suppressants might also be considered.

I've read the link to the FDA information on Remicade, which is pretty scary. The oral steroid concerns me since my daughter had a difficult time stopping it without increased eye inflammation. In addition, during the ten months she was on it, she hardly grew at all. (She has grown two inches since May, when she finally stopped all oral steroids.) Because of her age (12) and point of maturation, this is probably her last growth spurt.

If the antibiotics make a big difference, perhaps she won't need any additional drug beyond something just at the time of surgery. However, her doctor feels that we need to have chosen some other drug or drugs to use, in case they are needed.


Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   10-17-03 14:39

Margo,
Of the three choices I would choose Remicade. Two months of Remicade, one before and one after, should not be enough to allow the bacteria to morph to an active state (which is what gives the danger of increased infection), and, in any case, I assume you will be using minocycline to minimize the chance of that. Remicade stays in your blood/tissue for a long time, and I suspect two shots would do the job. Talk with Doc about it.

Anyway, cross you fingers that the antibiotics and Benicar will make a difference in the next month or two. Maybe she will only need the Remicade then, and not remicade/prednisone.

..Trevor..
ps: Bet you never thought you would see me saying something nice about Remicade It all depends on the application, the short-term of use and also the concomitant use of minocycline to prevent bacterial polymorphism.

pps: You are going to have to keep her away from viral infection sources while she is on the Remicade - minocycline will not block them

ppps: Did she have any herx from the Z+M?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   10-17-03 14:59

Trevor,

Wow, you sure are quick to respond!

In terms of the Remicade - the doctor is hoping that one dose will be enough, to provide extra coverage during the time of the surgery.

As far as keeping away from viral infection sources - we have more control than most parents, because we are homeschooling. We decided to homeschool when her sarcoidosis and uveitis were the most severe, since she had very little energy and was in a lot of pain from her eyes. As long as the rest of us stay healthy, we can limit her contact with her friends, especially the ones who are sick.

The zythromax plus minocycline caused some herxheimer, though it is not noticeable in her eyes at this point. Her herxheimer is also worse soon after her dose of methotrexate, and is less just before the next shot. We are wondering about how to adjust dosing.

Our eye doctor had a pleasant e-mail exchange with Dr. Wirostko, which helped our doctor feel more encouraged about the benefits of antibiotics in sarcoidosis. (I also provided our doctor with a photocopy of the article about bacteria in sarc-related uveitis in which Dr. Wirostko is a joint author.)

Thanks. A variety of the doctors have been mentioning Remicade, so I am sure they will have no problem with that choice.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   11-25-03 06:51

It's hard to know what topic to post under, when symptoms are numerous.

In any case, I wanted to report on finishing up my Minocycline (pulsing in Bactrim) and it's effect on my Uveitis.

I had to really creep up on the Bactrim dose (slicing a DS tablet - which is
almost a gram- into 8 pieces) due to the herx when adding in the Bactrim.
Herx symptoms included head ache, occipital bone pain, stiff neck, muscle aches, fever, mucous drainage from the deep head sinuses and eye pain.

For the last week I have not had a herx - but nightmares have started. This is a tetracycline drug side effect for me - which starts after about 30 days of continous tetracycline, and was the reason I suspended Lyme abx treatment the last 2 times.

Thankfully, this time, the herx/ eye pain did not proceed ro red eye.
I was much more consious of inflammation this time - and cut back or
took ibuprofen when I though inflammation was high. I think I controlled it better this time that my last Lyme abx rounds. (Plus I have cut Vit D from my diet this time quite a while before starting this round).
The whole point of this round was to kill some of the variants left in my head post Lyme abx treatment using different abx. (lingering symptoms of tinnitus/Uveitis)

This abx combination eliminated the tinnitis (2 toned fog-horn) in my right ear, and lessened the loudness in the left ear.
My eyes look very good, and I have not experienced an increase in cells in the vitreous. Actually, my whole head feels clearer, and "lighter".

I don't see either of my Drs. again till Jan. - so will see where I am then.
I feel confident this combo did alot of good to reduce the bacteria
population.


Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: swc (208.42.74.---)
Date:   12-16-03 12:25

Hi Trevor and all,

I have been on the Marshall protocol since april 15 03. Many of my symptoms have improved, however, my eyes and breathing/coughing continue to be problematic. I plan to start the M+Z therepy after the first of the year.

My question today is my eye doctor is very concerned about the condition of my eyes. She has diagnosed me with both Dry eye syndrome and superficial punctate keratitis. She believes the SPK is being caused by my extremely dry eyes. However, I have read that it can also be caused by a bacterial infection. Could this symptom be herx related??? I have not quit the treatment for an extended period to see if they clear up---I want to keep plugging away at it. Has anyone else seen these types of syptoms clear up after the M+Z treatment???

As always, thanks for your input!!!----swc

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   12-16-03 12:38

Swc,
It is important to start on the Z+M therapy as soon as you have conquered the herx from 100mg of minocycline q48h. This is because Azithromycin is far more effective than minocycline at penetrating the brain and the eyes (other deep tissue too, but neuro and optical efficacy are paramount). But it is too strong to be taken early in your recovery - it would kill too many bugs at once...

Just plugging away with the minocycline, month after month, only kills a proportion of the bacterial species in your body. We are dealing with bugs that are very hard to kill, resistant to antibiotics, and Z+M is the first protocol that seems to get at most of them. Once Z+M has killed all the bugs it can, then there is another final step that needs to be taken.

I am not talking publicly about anything beyond Z+M yet, as I believe that if any of you think you are macho enough to take it too soon you will end up in the ER. So let the Z+M work its magic first, then contact one of the moderators for details of how to put the finishing touch on your recovery.

..Trevor..
ps: Z+M was still making my eyes water some three months after I started using it - it is REALLY GOOD on eyes (which is why it was recommended to us by a research opthalmologist, I guess).

 
 Macular Degeneration/ use of PredForte
Author: Daniel Ornelas (---.lb-cres.charterpipeline.net)
Date:   01-22-04 14:28

Hello, I came across this website ( I'm not quite sure if it appropriate for my question) and am psting in hopes some one can help. My mother in law has had a number of surgical procedures done in an attempt to alliviate symptoms caused by Macular Degeneration, and is administering drops of PredForte as part of her drug therapy. Can the PredForte be causing changes to her bowel movements? She has developed diarrhea that doesn't appear to be diet related. A friend of hers suggested it could be the eye drops she is using. Has anyone experienced any similar problems? Any advice or comments would help. Please feel free to contact me at danga61259@yahoo.com. Thanks for lending an ear. Daniel

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.115.74.164.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   01-22-04 20:37

Hi Daniel,

I applaud your efforts to find the answer to your mother's health problems. Your question, however, is beyond the scope of this forum. I suggest that you research the treatment of macular degeneration on the Internet. You may find a answer there. And, as always, your first source of information should be your mother's physician.

Best wishes,

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Cathy (212.219.186.---)
Date:   01-26-04 04:02

A question about eye drops: I have been prescribed Carbomer for dry eyes and told that I will have to use this indefinitely as I do not produce tears. Are there any ill effects from this medicine? Also are there any other topical treatments that can bring relief?

A question about cataracts - are bi-lateral cortical cataracts likely to be attributable to Sarcoidosis?

Thanks

Cathy

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   01-26-04 07:27

Cathy,

A good source for information about ocular inflammatory disease is www.uveitis.org, as well as the related support group at http://pub24.ezboard.com/buveitissupportmeei.

These sources can probably answer your questions. In terms of treatment, most people who write to the sites are on immune-suppressants/anti-inflammatory medications.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Rick (---.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
Date:   01-26-04 09:35

Hi Trevor and all . . .

My last eye appointment showed that my beginning cataract was stable, and to just keep an eye on it . . . no pun here. However, beyond the protocol, is there anything else one can do to keep it in check?

And on another issue . . . sorry, green phlegm (we discussed a while back) . . . My doctor felt that there might be an infection and gave me an
Rx for Ceftin and the Pharmacy gave me Cefuroxime Axetil (Generic) 500 mg 2x day . . . The green gook has is almost gone but I feel like I am herxing with it . . .

You thoughts?

Rick in Napa

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   01-26-04 09:44

Rick,
Ceftin is a cepalosporin antibiotic, which may have some activity in Sarc, especialy in combination with minocycline. So be acreful of the herx, but it should not be a major problem.

ARBs will help keep down cataracts.

The Antibiotic interactions to particularly be careful of
1. Azithromycin with ANY other antibiotic or with (the antibiotic) Methotrexate
2. Bactrim, Septra (Sulfa/Trimeth) with any other antibiotic, epecially Z or M
3. Minocycline with bactrim or (possibly) other macrolides (like erythromycin or Biaxin (clarithromycin)) or with Methotrexate

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Chris (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date:   03-23-04 08:02

The retina specialist just diagnosed 'ideopathic central serous retinopathy'. He said it could be an effect of sarcoid, or predisone, or just because.

The short description is a leak at the back of the eyeball that separates the layers and causes blurred vision.

Anybody else experience this?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Michael (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   03-23-04 12:01

Steve
Your post dated 18th August 2003 re Ms Wirostko. Have you any further details of CWD bugs in the immune cells of the vitreous? Would like
to pass this on to my opthalmologist who is not convinced!
Regards Michael

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   03-23-04 12:06

Michael,
The abstract is at this URL

The full text has photographs in it.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   03-25-04 05:09

Margo:

Haven't heard a report on your daughters eyes lately.
How is she doing?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   03-26-04 19:25

Barb,

Thanks for asking. For those who haven't read the previous posts, my daughter developed cataracts in both eyes, as a result of uveitis and steroid treatment.

My daughter's eye has healed very well after the cataract surgery and lens implant. She is seeing quite well out of that eye. She also comments on how bright everything is. She hadn't realized how the cataract had made everything dimmer. The inflammation from the anterior uveitis is at a very low level now.

The cataract in the other eye is a little worse; she will need to have surgery sometime on that eye. The ophthalmologist says that we can schedule that surgery as is convenient for us. She also mentioned that delaying the surgery will give our daughter more months on the antibiotics. (I was pleased that the doctor has noticed some of the benefits from the antibiotics/Benicar therapy.)

The ophthalmologist was happily surprised that her eye healed as quickly as it did. She had one dose of Remicade before the surgery, steroids during the surgery and a long-acting steroid injection, steroid eye drops, methotrexate, and Benicar, minocycline, and azythromicine. Post-surgery, she also used Ciloxan, an antibiotic eye drop, for one week. (Since surgery is a powerful stimulus of uveitis, the ophthalmologist wanted additional anti-inflammatories to help make sure the eye would tolerate the surgery and lens implant.)

She had trouble tolerating her usual dose of antibiotics about three weeks after the surgery, something we think may be due to the Remicade permitting the bacteria to grow more easily. We reduced the dose of antibiotics, and are now slowly working back up to the previous level.

She has recently had a noticeable increase in energy. Also, happily, she has had several growth spurts in the last ten months. She had been on oral steroids for ten months, and hardly grew at all. As she is almost 13, this is a key time for her to grow.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: marilyn (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   03-27-04 01:04

I have had uveitis and was treated with steroids which brought on glaucoma.

Have been off of all medication for six months and the eye pressure is in normal range.Small cataracts which I am told to let lie. However the visual field test shows some black spots near the optic nerve in one eye and I am to see the glaucoma dept of the eye hospital next month about this. The visual field test was re-done after three months and the black spots remain the same as the first test three months ago. Only one black spot was there one year ago after treatment began.

I am hoping to begin the MP soon and wondering will it bring back an uveitis flair up and if so how to handle it.......

Many thanks

Marilyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.115.74.164.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   03-27-04 21:27

This message has been moved by Meg to a more appropriate thread.

Author: antoinette mitchell (cpe-24-160-0-239.sw.rr.com)
Date: 03-27-04 20:07

I MY NAME IS ANTOINETTE I HAVE SARCOIDOSIS IN I HAVE BEEN HAVEING PROBLEM WITH MY EYES AND MARKS ALL OVER MY BOBY I HAVE BEEN FILLING VERY SILK FOR THE PASS MONTH PLEASE CAN SOME ONE HELP ME PLEASE LET ME NO. THNAK YOU,

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.115.74.164.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   03-27-04 21:50

Antoinette,

Welcome to SarcInfo. We've created this website to help you understand sarcoidosis. We have developed a treatment plan that puts sarcoidosis into remission. Many doctors do not know about it yet. You will have to share this information with your doctor and ask him to help you. Please start by reading the Patient Tutorials at the top left of this page. There is a lot of information on eye problems in this thread. Your eye and skin problems will go away when you use the Marshall Protocol. I'll email you a guide for your doctor on how to get started.

Be sure to let us know if you have any questions.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   03-28-04 06:17

Margo:

Thanks for the update.
It sounds as if your daughter is holding her own, and the new lens
is coming along very well.

This must be a relief for both of you.

It also sounds as if your Ohphthamologist is on board with the abx - which IMO, is the right thing to do. In this case (immediately post surgery) I think the steroids was also the right thing to do.

I happy for you both.
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   05-04-04 05:10

Margo:

I'm wondering about your daughter again.
Hoping she's progressing fine.

I see my Ohpthalmologist for the first time in about a year this Thursady morning.
What a treat it's been NOT seeing him, as I was going every week, then every other week for a while.

We'll see what he says when he's done with the exam.
I'll let you know.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-05-04 09:44

Barb,

I hope you have a good visit with your eye doctor. We see the eye doctor on Friday.

Here's an update:

At the last ophthal. visit, the L eye was the same, very little inflammation. The R eye (the one with the lens implant) had an increase in cells, a light endothelial dusting, and some tiny KPs. There is also clouding of the lens capsule. (Eventually, the clouding may require a laser procedure to open the back of the capsule, probably putting her at increased risk for more inflammation, etc.)

The question we have is, what does this mean? The eye doctor thinks it means that she has had us taper the pred forte eye drops too quickly. We have also been stretching the weekly methotrexate injection to 9 days, sometimes.

In the past, whenever the inflammation increased, our daughter had noticeable increased eye pain/headache. She says maybe she has had a little increased pain, but not much. In addition, she is not using a cycloplegic (dilating) eye drop now. Such drops always decreased her eye pain, so I would expect her to be even more sensitive now to pain on moving the iris.

So, I am also wondering what Jarisch-Herxheimer in the eye would be like. Would a brief increase in cells correlate with Herx? No one seems to know. The eye doctor was pretty skeptical that the antibiotics cause this. (When push comes to shove, no one believes that bacteria are present.)

(Then, last week, at a visit with the ped. rheumatologist, we were strongly urged to begin regular infusions of Remicade. The rheumatology fellow harangued me because he said I didn't understand how Remicade worked, and therefore my attributing various symptoms which arose about three weeks after her dose of Remicade to the Remicade was wrong.)

We hope that the eye doctor will be content with the findings on the visit Friday. Otherwise, we will be pressured once again to add another immune-suppressant - oral steroids or Remicade are the favorites here.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-05-04 10:24

Margo,
We are starting to see the horror stories about Remicade pop up on the other sarcoidosis discussion boards. One sarc patient managed to stay on it for 12 months (the average tolerance is only 2-5 months) and now she can't wean. Exactly like prednisone. Isn't it amazing how clinicians continue to allow themselves to be seduced and duped by pharmaceutical companies and pseudo-science.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   05-05-04 19:09

Margo:

I can only tell you my experience.
And from my experience I most definitely think a herx increases the cells in the eye., therefore giving a higher inflammation rating on the slit-test.
I was seeing my eye Dr. every week for a while to do cell counts. And it seemed to me that the better the abx worked on other Lyme symptoms, the worse my eyes got.

In my case I beleive the optic neuritis symptoms also increased (central foggy cloudly vision in the right eye, auras, flashing lights, etc.) during a herx.

Every visit seemed to be we were just guessing at what exactly was causing what.

I adjusted the abx dose down (or stopped it) waiting for my eyes to quiet.
The problem - there seemed to be a lag time... they'd get worse for a while after stopping abx , but it may be just because it takes so darn long for them to drain thru the angle of the eye... but I was always second quessing - what if it's not lag time - but MORE inflammation..?

How MUCH of an increase in cells was there in your daughters eye?

I know the inflammation cell count range is only an estimate they give you, because they just wait for a few cells to "drift by", then they apply a formula to it, and come up with Inflammation - of a 1 thru 4... SO you could get a 2+ from one Dr. and a 3+ from a different Dr. both looking at you at the same time.

Is her intraocular pressure OK.??

What is the clouding? Is it oxidation?
If it IS oxidation, I would think that
taking oral (or eye drop) anti-oxidants would be in order... But I know most Drs. will not even discuss non-prescription preparations with a patient.

I dearly wish I had an answer for her - Eyesight is so important.

I will post after my eye appt tomorrow.
Please do the same afer your daughters appt. Friday.

Best regards,
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-06-04 07:53

Barb,

A quick answer to your questions.

<"How much of an increase in cells?"

The doctor saw 3-5 cells in the right eye, where before she saw 0-1. These are raw numbers, not converted to the 0-4 scale ophal. often use.

<"What is the clouding [of the lens capsule]?"

The clouding is similar to cataract formation - the cells are being disturbed, and no longer have the clear crystalline structure they originally had. The ophthal. says that the lens capsule almost always becomes less opaque. I don't know if this has anything to do with oxidation or not. (I wonder if the lens implant resting on the capsule helps cause this - don't know.)

<"Is her intraocular pressure OK?"

Yes, the pressure is ok; a tiny bit less in the right eye than the left.

I'm eager to hear how things go for you with the doctor. I'll let you know what we find out on Friday.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   05-06-04 08:59

I had my Opthal. Exam this morning - eyes are just now adjusted enough to type (but I'm still in sunglasses).

Dr. T. had 2 residents with him this morning, and he gave them the 5 minutes summary on my 12 year case of Uveitis and previous autoimmune diagnoses - culminating with my positive tests for Lyme and Babesia in 2002 and subsequent abx therapy... and the lingering inflammation in my eyes after most of the lyme symtpoms were gone.
This is the area of disagreement between he and I about what was causing the lingering eye symptoms- last year he thought "post-lyme syndrome" aka autoimmune and I thought bacteria DNA or bacterial debrie still in deep tissues keeping the immune system active.

This year, he didn't say anything about Post Lyme Syndrome...
and we didn't have time to discuss theory, so I'm not sure what he thinks
about that now.

The absolutely fabulous news is that I have zero cells in both eyes and no
sign of inflammation. No cataract, and no scarring. I don't have to go back for a year. Pressure was 11 in one eye 12 in the other.

I'm not sure if I could be more elated.
Geez. I am 100% symptom free now. After 25 years of continual
symptoms/pain/autoimmune dx's - I'm pretty thrilled.

Hope your daughter's appointment goes well tomorrow.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   05-06-04 12:13

Oh P.S.....

I wanted to add this abstract on swollen eye muscles
causing severe eye pain... amazing to me that the Drs. founfd the real
reason & didn't just given the patient Steroids.

"Orbital myositis associated with Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme disease) infection"
Department of Ophthalmology, The George Washington University, Washington, DC, USA


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15121383

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-07-04 18:52

Barb,

I'm so pleased for you about your good visit with the eye doctor.

At the eye doctor today, there was a tiny decrease in cells in the R eye, but no epithilial dusting. (There was very little inflammation in the L eye.)Pressures were good.

The lens capsule is thicker (R eye) and the cataract is thicker (L eye).

The lens capsule becomes thicker because some lens cells are left on the edges after cataract surgery. These cells have a tendency to migrate to the more central areas of the lens capsule. In children, they almost always cause clouding of the lens capsule. In adults, it happens more slowly, and only in about 50% of the people. The inflammation in the eye may also be making this happen more quickly.

The clouding of the lens capsule can be addressed with a laser procedure - but only if there is no inflammation, and only if there are additional immune-suppressants being used. The laser procedure can cause increased inflammation of the eye.

We will evaluate things in three weeks. The doctor says that the clouding of the lens capsule can quickly become very troublesome, just like having a dense cataract.

The local doctors are really pushing Remicade. It looks like we will need something, but I don't know what immune-suppressant to use. I have a feeling that if we use Remicade, it will be needed for a long time (first the laser procedure, then the cataract surgery). Some people have good control of the uveitis with Remicade, but there doesn't seem to be anything published about what happens after Remicade is stopped. (One specialist comments that Remicade is not associated with a durable remission in anyone, unlike some other drugs.)

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Nicola (---.sympatico.ca)
Date:   05-20-04 16:18

Good evening.

My GP sent me to an ophthalmologist to check there was no ocular involvement with my sarcoidosis. I had my eye appointment today and the specialist said there seemed to be what looked like a blood clot. Naturally, I am thinking "granuloma" rather than blood clot. I am to go back in 6 weeks for monitoring. Almost a year ago, when my eyes were last checked, there was nothing.

Could a granuloma potentially be mistaken for a blood clot?

Many thanks.

Nicola

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-21-04 15:10

Nicola,

Trevor answered this on the General Questions thread.

Hope his answer helps.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Carolyn Inabinet (---.ph.ph.cox.net)
Date:   05-22-04 22:06

Meg:

I have had a severe floater appear with some vitreous detachment/wrinkle - not enough to be called a detachment of the retina. Would this have anything to do with my D levels and high ACE?

Carolyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-23-04 13:34

Carolyn,

I don't know enough about vitreous detachments. You might check the information at this site: http://www.uveitis.org, particularly the glossary. Also check a related site for support and information. http://pub24.ezboard.com/buveitissupportmeei. At these sites, you will not find anyone discussing bacterial causes of inflammatory diseases, but there are people knowledgeable about the symptoms of ocular inflammatory disease.

Inflammation in the eye can cause varying problems. If you have sarcoidosis, the inflammation may well manifest in the eyes in some way. (The high D levels certainly suggest systemic inflammation.)

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   05-26-04 05:31

Margo:

How's your daughter doing?

Did you ever decide whether to use Remicade for your daughter?
I'm sure you've read the lit. on Enbrel and Remicade

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/01/briefing/3779b2_01_cber_safety_revision2.htm

But thought I'd mention the following:

I have an RA friend, who's been doing the MP (sans Benicar) for about a year now.

Thru her herxing - she has been able to determine that Enbrel does nothing to reduce the inflammation from a herx. This surprised us both at the time as I'd read that some Lyme Drs. were considing using Enbrel to lessen the herx.

She has severe neutropenia, and a low WBC count in general - probably
from the use of the enbrel.

She is now feeling pretty well (Enbrel shots decreased from once every 3 to 4 days to about once every 15 days).

From her years on Enbrel, she has a low WBC and neutropenia.
This has not changed, even with the reduction in Enbrel injections.
SHe's almost ready to try going with Enbrel all together... but this is a big step.

Please let us know how your daughter's doing.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-26-04 18:37

Barb,

Thanks for asking. We are seeing the eye doctor on Friday, so we will know then what she recommends for the next step.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   05-28-04 14:16

We had a better than expected ophthalmology visit. The inflammation was down a bit more in the R eye, and about the same in the L eye. She was also seeing a tiny bit better. Pressures remain good.

Now, the ophthal. thinks we can wait, perhaps until late October, to do anything. If the inflammation increases, or if the vision becomes troubling, then she will want to move towards a procedure (laser on one eye, or cataract surgery on the other) somewhat sooner.

We hope this will give us enough time for the antibiotics to make a real difference.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   06-03-04 05:00

Margo! This is great news.
Even a tiny move in the right direction
is good news in my book.

It just takes so long for the immune cells to clear the vitreous once they're in there - even if the inflammation has stopped.

I'll be thinking about her.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Amber Jean (---.aus.amer.dell.com)
Date:   06-07-04 10:40

my mom has this weird "water bubble" on her eye. That is the best way to explain it ... it has a light yellow tint and is non painful. We just had an appointment with the eye doctor (ophthalmologist) and she said everything looked great. This bubble popped up yesterday.Any ideas on what this could be ?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   06-08-04 09:03

Amber,

I don't know what it could be. You might check the eye glossary at www.uveitis.com. I would also give the eye doctor a call.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   06-08-04 09:31

David Schlesinger wrote about cataracts and eye surgery in the General Questions thread on 06-04-04 at 23:55. Here is an excerpt of what he wrote:

"...I am down to 9 on the prednisone, and my doctor who finally prescribed me the needed drugs is sort of amazed, as we thought I was on the end of a downward spiral of decreased life and greater dependence on awful drugs. Its slow but steady coming down on the pred. and I can't seem to rush it. The 24 hrs of sunlight is not the greatest either. Well, the eye doctor who wouldn't see me if i did your protocol was e'mailed by the G.P. who reported my great increase in health and function, (i just returned from an 8 day backcountry canoe trip and am clearing land and building houses 8 hrs. a day), He wants to see me to take out the cataract that occured from the prednisone and other steroids he gave me. But as my body is healing so is the cataract. Its improving a little bit at a time from being so bad as to be useless to make out shapes and read a little at close range. ....Its a small town and this guy iis the only eye surgeon around, but he has a history of doing multiple surgeries on sarc people and they all seem to struggle with sarc reactions to lenses. I don't want to offend him so I keep saying I'm out of town, he's a nice guy and well respected in the community.
He wants to help me genuinely I think. What do you think? ...."

David,

I hope it will help people to centralize the discussion of eye problems on one of the threads that is focused on the eye.

From what you wrote, above, my understanding is that your cataracts were caused by the oral steroids you were taking as treatment for sarcoidosis. Is that right? You never had symptoms of chronic inflammation in the eye (for example, uveitis, iritis, pars planitis)? If your vision is improving a little, that may be from reduced inflammation in the eye, however, and not from the cataract diminishing.

Unfortunately, cataracts are a well-known complication of steroid use. Steroids can also cause glaucoma. On the other hand, untreated uveitis can also cause cataracts and glaucoma.

Do you have cataracts in both eyes? How is your vision for reading and distance? Do you have lots of problems with glare?

When we discussed cataract surgery with my daughter's eye doctor, she said that there is no danger to the eye in delaying the surgery, except if the patient is a young child. (Because the nerves between the brain and the eye are still forming, anything that intereferes with vision in a young child can affect the development of the nerves and permanently harm vision. That is why babies with cataracts always have treatment.) Since you are still taking 9 mg of prednisone a day, it would be good to evaluate the eyes when you are off the prednisone.

Cataract surgery in someone with underlying inflammatory eye disease is more risky than cataract surgery in a healthy senior citizen. Eye surgery can always provoke inflammation in the eye. When someone already has inflammation in the eye, there is a greater risk of provoking more serious inflammation, which can interfere with vision and/or damage the eye. I don't know if someone with sarcoidosis, but without known eye inflammation, is at risk or not. I would try the "ask the doctor" function at www.uveitis.org.

In general, cataract surgery is simple and safe today. The difficulty for the person with inflammatory eye disease (OID) is making sure the eye is not inflamed prior to surgery. Very few ophthalmologists know much about treating the eye of the sarcoid patients, and very few have much experience. (Just consider how rare the diseases are. Most doctors, even specialists, have seen a handful of patients.) For successful eye surgery in patients with OID, doctors usually add one to two additional anti-inflammatories/immune-suppressants during and after the surgery. These drugs (methotrexate, steroids, Remicade, etc.) may delay resolution of the sarcoidosis.

If you are doing well on the Marshall Protocol, I would try to delay the cataract surgery. I think it is more likely that the problems associated with eye surgery in sarcoidosis patients would be minimized after success with the MP.

I hope you have been able to wear the NoIR sunglasses and a hat, especially since you work outside.

(You can read about our problems, above. We are hoping for more time before our daughter needs surgery on the second eye, to lessen the risk of problems tolerating the lens implant.)

Hope this helps.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   06-09-04 04:57

Neil:

Everything Margo said I agree with.
And congrats that your feeling much better.

Your report is very interesting.
And your report that your cataract is improving is also very interesting.

Cataract is oxidation if the lens.

Are you taking anti-oxidants?

I think you're correct in waiting on surgery if you think things are improving.

OK- I'm thinking about this. I think most Dr.s would say cataract is slowly progressive. WHy don't you go see your eye Dr.. tell him you think it's better,
and see what he says?

You might be interested in the antioxidant eye drops I used.
CAN-C (n-acetyl carnosine):
antioxidant Russian eye drops (Russian) are used in lieu of cataract surgery.
All the litereature on Pub Med is by the same authors, so there's not alot of glowing reports from diverse populations - but it seems it works for them.

Please keep us updated on your eyes.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: marilyn (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   06-09-04 11:02

Barb....I am interested in those anti oxydant eye drops you mention..Is the Russian drop just called Russian? Are they available over the counter in UK pharmacies do you know or in health food shops. Do you use both of them?
Might they help friends with AMD?

I have had sarc uveitis and am now off all medication.
However I am left with cupped optic nerve due to the glaucoma caused by the steroids for the uveitis. I am wondering if using those drops might help the eye health in general , dry eye, and even possibly prevent further degeneration. ( and AMD !) I am advised to wait on doing anything about the early slight cataract which is there.

I had used an under tongue spray called Pure Focus which I think helped the uveitis period, although the docs dont agree !!!

Thanks for your advice..

Marilyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: marilyn (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   06-09-04 11:03

Barb....I am interested in those anti oxydant eye drops you mention..Is the Russian drop just called Russian? Are they available over the counter in UK pharmacies do you know or in health food shops. Do you use both of them?
Might they help friends with AMD?

I have had sarc uveitis and am now off all medication.
However I am left with cupped optic nerve due to the glaucoma caused by the steroids for the uveitis. I am wondering if using those drops might help the eye health in general , dry eye, and even possibly prevent further degeneration. ( and AMD !) I am advised to wait on doing anything about the early slight cataract which is there.

I had used an under tongue spray called Pure Focus which I think helped the uveitis period, although the docs dont agree !!!

Thanks for your advice..

Marilyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   06-09-04 14:29

Marilyn,

Try a search of this site, or Google, for CAN-C (n-acetyl carnosine) eye drops. They can be ordered as an eye lubricant.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: John L (---.avaya.com)
Date:   06-09-04 16:18

although I have sarc in my lungs and my gi tract, so far my eyes seem uneffected except for occasional itching/burning which is probably herx related. Am considering lasik as my opthamologist says I'm a good candidate and that a colleague of his did another sarc with no problems. Was wondering if anyone has any pro/con thoughts on sarcs having lasik done....thx

John L

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.240.36.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-09-04 18:06

John L,

Sarcoidosis causes high levels of angiotensin which often delays wound healing. Sarcoidosis inflammation loves to settle in scar tissue. Trevor has recommended delaying all elective surgery until sarcoidosis is in remission. IMO, you would be jeopardizing the success of this optional surgery and possibly your eyesight as well. And I say this as someone who has had a surgical failure probably related to undiagnosed sarcoidosis.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   06-10-04 10:32

This is where I bought mine (CAN-C (n-acetyl carnosine) eye drops):

http://www.smart-publications.com/hfn/canc.html

The packaging leaves alot to be desired - (unless they've improved it)
you need to pierce the end with a sterile pin, then even though you replace the cap - the vile needs to be kept upright (or it'll leak).

It was worth the effort though.

I used all five viles - about 5 or 6 weeks worth.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   06-10-04 19:56

I bought some from:

http://www.smart-nutrition.net

It is also Can-C (n-acetyl carnosine) eye drops, in five vials. When you need to open a vial, you can pierce it by pressing down on the cap of the closed vial. To open and close it after the first time, the cap simply screws on and off.

The vials need to be kept in the refrigerator once they are open.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: marilyn (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   06-11-04 07:33

Margo....

Does needing to keep the vials in the fridge mean that they are preservative free ?

Marilyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   06-11-04 10:44

Marilyn:
It's a shelf life issue - i.e. they're an unstable anti-oxidant - thus once opened, and exposed to air (Oxygen) they start to degrade.

There's not much know about how they interact with other eye drops (I.e. whether they'll be rendered useless- or not) SO I would not mix any other eye drops with them when you use them.

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: marilyn (---.server.ntli.net)
Date:   06-11-04 15:45

Thanks Barb for your reply.....

regards,

Marilyn

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: John L (---.avaya.com)
Date:   06-15-04 08:31

Trevor,
Have read over your tutorial on protecting eyes and am interested in getting the prescription sunglasses that will protect my eyes. If I read your info right, I need to:

1) order some good sunglass frames. (I like the glacier pair at opticsdirect.com)
2)have my optometrist order the Zeiss Skylet Sport lenses in my correction with the appropriate coating(s)
3)have my optometrist fit my sunglass frames w/ the new lenses.

questions:
-how much money (ball park) are the lenses going to cost?
-do you recommend getting the lenses polarized?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   06-15-04 11:43

John,

Lots of people are getting sunglasses (including fit-over sunglasses that can go over the regular prescription glasses) from NoIr (http://www.noir-medical.com/noir_amber.htm). These are much cheaper than the lenses from Zeiss.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: John L (---.avaya.com)
Date:   06-16-04 07:10

thx for your response Margo

I have owned 4 pair of the NOIRs which work well. Unfortunately they break easily (now down to my last pair) and leave a lot to be desired in the fashion category. I'm ready for a step up (provided I can afford it). I'm very active in the outdoors, I have a cabin, a boat, a bicycle, and occasionally go motor-biking and ATVing so you can see I need to protect my eyes and skin as best as possible. I can't just sit in a darkened room, although I have tried on the day after a particular sunny excursion!

John L

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Julia (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   06-16-04 14:55

THE MP IS HEALING MY EYES!!

After 18 months of uveitis and four courses of steroid drops, which only gave temporary relief, I didn't really expect to get my sight back to normal.

But after 3 months of minocycline all the bruised feeling and fuzziness has gone. All I've got left is a cobweb of floaters, much fainter than it was and getting better.

Of course, my eye specialist is going to say, "I told you it gets better after a couple of years." :-(
Funny how the improvement so exactly coincided with starting mino... LOL

Julia

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.188.240.36.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-16-04 18:00

John,

I have had the same pair of NoIR sunglasses (SpectraShield) for 1 1/2 years. I've used them constantly and at times been careless about how I treat them. Other than being understandably a bit scratched, they are holding up well. I would love to have a pair of prescription sunglasses from Zeiss but cannot justify the cost of several hundred dollars. I'm green with envy but will have to settle for being unfashionable and healthy.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Pippit (---.asm.bellsouth.net)
Date:   06-16-04 20:42

Julia,

That's great news!!! Maybe this will be encouraging to others still sitting on the fence with eye involvement who may be afraid to try this treatment. Not only did you not suffer any damage but your eyes improved.

Pippit

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: John L (---.avaya.com)
Date:   06-28-04 12:47

Trevor,
Have read over your tutorial on protecting eyes and am interested in getting the prescription sunglasses that will protect my eyes. If I read your info right, I need to:

1) order some good sunglass frames. (I like the glacier pair at opticsdirect.com)
2)have my optometrist order the Zeiss Skylet Sport lenses in my correction with the appropriate coating(s)
3)have my optometrist fit my sunglass frames w/ the new lenses.

questions:
-how much money (ball park) are the lenses going to cost?
-do you recommend getting the lenses polarized?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Virginia (---.aep.bellsouth.net)
Date:   06-29-04 08:54

Hello MP team,

I too am thinking of Lasix. I was diagnosed with Sarc in 1996, and started with "the worst case of scalaritis (spelling?) that The Emory Un. Eye Center had ever seen" Even did a case study on me. I was on Dex for 4 months, but it saved my eye. It was worth it because of the intense pain caused by this condition. Just wondering if I would jeopardize my vision with this laser procedure??

I currently take 1/2 40mg of Benicar per day (can't take more, as it causes me to retain fluid. Gained 5 lbs in 1 day with anything over 40mg.) and no steroids, and am waiting for the long term studies before I start on the Mino, since I had a life threatening episode while on another Tetracycline. The Benicar has allowed me to stop Azthmacort after 5 years of being on it, and has improved my nasal & lung Sarc. Just take 60mg of Allegra daily, Refresh tears for dry eyes, and ocean for my nose.

Would appreciate your thoughts on the laser surgery for me.
Thanks for all you folks do for us.
Wendy

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.115.72.119.static.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   06-29-04 15:33

Hi Wendy,

Patients with active sarcoidosis have high levels of angiotensin. This can contribute to poor healing. For this reason we recommend that patients postpone elective surgery until they are in remission. I experienced a surgical failure that appeared to be directly related to poor healing before I started the Marshall Protocol. Since the surgery was/is elective, I will wait until all signs of inflammation are gone before I contemplate this surgery again.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-03-04 19:27

Wendy,

People with a history of an ocular inflammatory disease (like scleritis) should not have Lasik eye surgery. Any eye surgery can provoke eye inflammation - the likelihood is far greater for those who have already had serious eye inflammation.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Jason (216.78.69.---)
Date:   07-04-04 22:31

Hello everbody,i have uvitus due to sarcoid .i have lost most of the vision in the right eye due to a retna detachment caused by fluid from the uvitus.I have had many shots of steroids in the both of them!Well the imflamation is now under control but the fluid all thow better but not gone is still causeing the problem,the doc says well we need to take out the lens and implant another cause of the cataracts,so we could inject in the eye gel close to the retna steroids and the vision might come back.I have cataracts in the both of the eyes and need surgery but honestly I dont know what to do!I think the cataracts are caused from steroid drops and injections.I realy need advise and info!Thanks

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Pippit (---.aep.bellsouth.net)
Date:   07-05-04 01:22

Jason,

Welcome to Sarcinfo. Please read and print out the Papers for Physicians and take these to your doctor.

Steroids can cause cateracts and we don't recommend them for various reasons. You can learn more about this by reading the thread, Prednisone, the false cure.

Benicar used with specific antibiotics outlined here will treat the underlying cause of your Sarcoidosis; bacteria.

Make sure to read the patient tutorial, Weaning from Prednisone. This will explain exactly how to do this. The protocol medications here will make steroids unecessary, and I think you'll find that you won't need to do alot of the things you have done in the past in your treatment.

Hang in there. It gets better. You've come to the right place.


Pippit

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Jason (---.jan.bellsouth.net)
Date:   07-05-04 10:44

What about the cateracts should i have the sergery?So you are saying dont do the injection start the protocol instead?Thanks again Jason

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.115.72.119.static.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   07-05-04 11:34

Jason,

There is a lot of information in this thread about the MP, eye inflammation and cataracts. Margo has the most experience in this area. She reports that it is a delicate balancing act to kill the bacteria in the eyes without causing too much temprorary increased inflammation. I have asked her to respond to your questions.

We do know that steroid injections are not the answer. It may not be easy to find an opthalmologist who is knowledgeable about using antibiotics instead of steroids. And most are unfamiliar with how Benicar blocks the inflammation. You will need to educate yourself with the information on this website and then ask your doctor to read the papers for physicians. Hopefully, he will allow you to chose this safer alternative. If he says no, let us know if you'd like a list of doctors in your area who might be more supportive.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-05-04 12:36

Jason,

Where is your uveitis (anterior, posterior, pan)? Since you have had steroid injections in the eye, I would imagine that you have had problems in the back of the eye. How is your vision now? Is it changing rapidly?

Is your eye doctor a specialist in ocular inflammatory disease? There are very few such specialists. Many doctors have an interest in the area, but few have fellowship-level training in the topic. Before eye surgery, I would suggest consulting with one of these specialists.

The problems posed by sarcoidosis and uveitis will continue, even after cataract surgery, unless you begin the Marshall Protocol. Standard treatments mainly suppress the immune system. The suppression can temporarily protect the eye structures from damage, but the long-term risk of damage remains very high. (The bacteria which cause the sarcoidosis spread more freely when the immune system is suppressed.)

There are a few eye doctors who will support the MP. Benicar has proved beneficial in diabetic eye disease, which is helpful information for an eye doctor. The antibiotics are much safer than the immune-suppressants that are more often used to treat uveitis.

With my daughter, we tried to give her as much time on the MP before eye surgery. She has done quite well, though we would have preferred more months of antibiotics before the first cataract surgery.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Jason (---.jan.bellsouth.net)
Date:   07-05-04 13:44

Im on immuran now, I do see a specialist at UT in Memphis TN .Yes i have a retna detachment at the back of the eye,doc put in dye and since the injection it has improved but i still cant see nothing but the big E!tHE CATARACTS ARE SO BAD HE SAYS SURGERY I NEED SOME ADVISE!

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-06-04 08:48

Jason,

I see from the University of Tennessee Health Science Center site that there is one doctor who did a fellowship in uveitis and ocular immunology. Have you seen this doctor? (We can call him Dr. C. W.) If you have not, then perhaps you can arrange a consultation with him. You might also want a consultation with another top specialist. Uveitis is so rare, and is associated with so many conditions (at least seventy) that even specialists can have limited experience.

From your comments, it sounds like you have bad cataracts in both eyes. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you about what we have done in our daughter's case. Are you able to see well enough to search the internet? There is lots of good information available.

Our daughter is now 13. After two years of primarily anterior uveitis, she had bad cataracts in both eyes. We had spent a year looking for a doctor who would support the Marshall Protocol. She had been using Angiotensin Receptor blockers and minocycline for about six months, and then added azythromycin (which has been effective in some cases of uveitis). We postponed the cataract surgery as long as we could in order to give the MP a chance to work. (The ophthalmologist said that there was no danger to her at her age in postponing the surgery. The choice of when to have the surgery was made in terms of how severely she was affected by the cataracts.) Her eye inflammation was under very good control by the time of the surgery.

Before the surgery, she had an additional dose of immune suppressant. Her eye healed quite well from the surgery, though she had some rebound symptoms probably related to the immune suppressant. We had to decrease her antibiotics to help control the Herxheimer. Over the last few months, we have very slowly increased the antibiotic dose.

There is lots of information on uveitis at www.uveitis.org and at http://pub24.ezboard.com/buveitissupportmeei. At this site, www.sarcinfo.com, there is lots of information about the Marshall Protocol. I think I read another post of yours mentioning other symptoms of sarcoidosis. The MP should help with these other symptoms as well as with the uveitis.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-06-04 20:27

Margo:

Good to hear from you.
Is your daughter holding her own as far as the inflammation is concerned (in the eyes).?
And how is the new lens doing?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-07-04 21:11

Barb,

Thanks for asking.

The eye inflammation is now very slight. It was hard for the eye doctor to find any inflammatory cells (though she found a few). The new lens seems fine. Some remaining lens cells have moved into the center of the lens (which is very common in children), so her vision is now 20/30 at best. If it gets worse (which is common in children), it can be corrected with a laser procedure. The procedure is simple, but it can stir up eye inflammation - which means more anti-inflammatory medications.

We will probably decide to do something in the late fall (either the laser procedure or cataract surgery on the other eye). Right now, our daughter reads pretty well, but the poor vision in the eye with the cataract and the glare from the cataract bother her.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-08-04 05:33

Margo:

That sounds encouraging.
The immune cells in the eyes are removed very very slowly, so as long as
there's not more, then I would expect the Ohpth. could see a few float by
when viewing with the slit lamp.

Did you ever try the Can-C in the eye with the cataract?

Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-09-04 12:39

Barb,

We've tried the Can-C. It's hard to judge when to use it since we're also using pred. drops pretty often. We'll try it some more, since we've just cut down a tiny bit on the pred. drops.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Julia (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   07-09-04 14:16

Well, perhaps I got excited too soon about my eyes healing. Today I had a routine eye test for new glasses, and the optician commented that I had the beginnings of cataracts forming - presumably as a result of four courses of steroid eye-drops over the last year, though she did say they can come slowly anyway. I take it these won't go away again, even if my eyes continue to improve with the antibiotics?

Julia

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   07-10-04 11:58

Julia,

Having cataracts (or the beginnings of cataracts) doesn't mean that your eyes have not healed. The cataracts represent damage, just as lung fibrosis represents damage. They don't represent on-going inflammation, which is the bigger risk to eye health.

The Can-C drops Barb and I were discussing, above, may help with cataracts. There haven't been studies on them in relation to cataracts that form because of uveitis or steroids. (The studies have all been done on using them to treat senile cataract.)

My understanding is that cataracts don't go away. Steroid eye-drops and oral steroids, as well as eye inflammation, will hasten the formation of cataracts. The MP will help with the sarcoid symptoms in the eye. The healthier the eye, the less the risk of the cataracts getting worse. If cataract surgery is ever needed, a healthier eye will heal more easilly.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.pp.jippii.fi)
Date:   08-12-04 05:34

Hi all!

Now I have iritis and pressure 35 in my left eye. So the opth gave four prescriptions Pred Forte, Ultracortenol, Oftan Scopolamin and Cosopt. After coming home I started to read sarcinfo and uveitis.org because I have this kind of a problem for the firtst time and did not start the treatment yet.
I started the second phase 18th of July with 62 mg Z and did quite well the first two 8 day cycles but the third cycle I left the Z away because of eye problems, the fourth cycle I continued with 62 mgs and have now fourth day.
Is it possible to make a herx test and leave the 100 mg M ead away for a certain period of time to see if iritis disappears?
Maybe I try to find a uveitis expert who has more experience in this field.
Any thoughts/advice?

risto

ps Otherwise I feel fine, have lost weight and my legs are back to normal

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Katina (---.242.117.131.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net)
Date:   08-12-04 19:10

Everyone in the past month,

I'd love to read further back but am trying a crash course today...
My daughter is 12 and has a UVeitis in both eyes (ones always worser) and has had it on/off for the past 16months and been taking Prednisone... I know there are side effects for oral predinisone but can someone give me the scoop on the eyedrops?
I'm also not very familiar with Cataract, anyway for me to avoid my daughter getting it?
What is Anterior Uveitis?
What is Can-C?


Hello, I'm Tatiana (Katina's daughter) I'm 12 and I like to play sports but can't because I'm ill. Margo, I was wondering if your daughter was fatigued and sore and if so could she still manage to play sports? Also has your daughter had a biopsey before?

Katina

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.117.101.148.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-12-04 20:17

risto,

I think you have an excellent idea. Yes, discontinue the Zithromax for awhile to see if the uveitis goes away. It's very likely the eye inflammation is simply Herx reaction. If so, you can reintroduce the Z at an even lower does to control the inflammation.

I cannot advise you regarding the use of steroids for your eye inflammation. The tissues of the eye are very delicate and prone to damage by inflammation. I suggest that you ask your eye doc if you can just use the steroid eye drops while you discontine the Zithromax. He will probably want to check your eyes soon and often to make sure that the inflammation isn't causing damage.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   08-18-04 21:23

Katina,

I just returned from a vacation, or I would have answered your post sooner. I, too, have a child (now 13) with anterior uveitis. We have a diagnosis of presumed sarcoidosis, as all of the blood tests support sarcoidosis.

She has not had a biopsy because there is no clear place to biopsy. Some of her doctors would like to do a gallium scan to look for a likely area to biopsy. However, since the results of a biopsy would not affect their treatment recommendations, we don't think a biopsy would be of real benefit.

She has had scans, x-rays, and lung function tests, and has seen numerous specialists. The uveitis has been the most serious problem. In addition, she had unrelenting headaches for a year and a half (which got much better with the Marshall Protocol), extreme fatigue (now much less of an issue) and lack of stamina, irritability (now gone), stomach pains and nausea (also mostly gone), frequent urination (which comes and goes), sore throat, and some breathlessness.

The uveitis has been such a serious problem because of its association with eye damage. She has anterior uveitis (also sometimes called iritis). The eye inflammation, steroid eye drops, and oral steroids she was treated with early on caused cataracts to form in both eyes. Both uveitis and steroids (including steroid eye drops) are associated with cararacts and glaucoma.

The best way to avoid these complications is to clear up the uveitis. The steroid eye drops are probably necessary to help protect the eye from possible damage from the inflammation. I would also consider the Can-C drops.

The overall Marshall Protocol(MP) has helped my daughter the most. She was being treated with other medications before we learned about the Marshall Protocol. It has been difficult to get the doctors' support in stopping these other medications. If your daughter has not begun using other medications, you are in a very good position to begin the MP. Patients with diagnoses other than sarcoidosis (other diseases with a similar cause) have also benefited from the MP.

Here is a summary to starting the MP:

1. Request the tests of the vitamin D metabolites (See the information at the top of the page about the tests.) There are a lot of medical articles that discuss abnormal levels of vitamin D metabolites in sarcoidosis patients to show your doctors, if necessary. Get a hard copy of the test results and share the numbers with Trevor. Most doctors are unfamiliar with the vitamin D ratio, so will have trouble interpreting the test results.

2. Start avoiding all dietary sources of vitamin D. (See the threads on this site about vitamin D in foods.) While this may be hard, there are lots of good foods without vitamin D. In the US, milk and butter are supplemented with vitamin D, as are many cereals and soy milks. Egg yolks and seafood are also high in vitamin D. (This step can be taken on your own. We found our daughter immediately felt better.)

3. Seriously avoid sunlight. Order a pair of NoIR sunglasses (See the link at the top of the page.) Cover up the windows, stay out of the sun, don't go walking in the daylight, etc. The uveitis may already be making your daughter sensitive to the sun, so perhaps this won't be a big change.

4. Begin using Benicar. We had to add a new family practitioner to the roster of doctors at this point. He was willing to write the prescription for the Benicar for a short while, then wanted us to get the Rx from one of the specialists. The ophthalmologist was willing when she saw some medical articles supporting the use of Benicar and related ARBs in helping to prevent diabetic eye disease. Our daughter adjusted easily to the Benicar, and immediately felt much better. (The doctors had us begin with 20 mg three times a day for several weeks, then agreed to switching to 40 mg three times a day.) Benicar has a very good safety profile, which is especially impressive when compared to the drugs commonly given to treat sarcoidosis and uveitis.

5. Begin the antibiotic regimen. The doctors agreed after seeing the medical papers about the use of minocycline in treating sarcoidosis. Since minocycline is viewed as a very safe drug, frequently given to teens to treat acne, they were not very worried about it.

Let us know how things are going this week.

Margo

Tatiana,

My daughter has had a very tough time. She has not been well enough to be in school. She is much better now, and was able to have a lead role in a musical play this summer. She never had a biopsy, but she had many tests that were hard to tolerate. We always try to do something special after a tough test, which helps a bit.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   08-18-04 21:39

Risto,

I gather from what you wrote, above, that you have been on the MP for some time, but this is your first episode of iritis and elevated eye pressure.

From what I understand, it is very important to treat the high ocular pressure to prevent eye damage. I think the medications that treat the pressure are unlikely to interfere with the Marshall Protocol.

Did the doctor rate the iritis (also called anterior uveitis)? How often are you supposed to use the Pred Forte eye drops? Do you have any eye symptoms?

Whenever people have a Herx reaction that is troublesome, they can back off on the antibiotics and allow the reaction to subside. Azythromycin (Z) is supposed to have good ocular penetration, so that could explain the appearance of Herx in the eye. I would ask Trevor's opinion about stopping the Z for several cycles, then adding an even tinier dose, maybe 1/4 or 1/8 of a tablet. (Azythromycin is available in 125 mg tablets, so 1/4 would be 31.25 mg.)

There are very few ophthalmologists who treat uveitis with antibiotics. If you are willing to travel, perhaps Meg can suggest some names.

Let us know how things go. It's good to hear that your leg problems are better.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.pp.jippii.fi)
Date:   08-19-04 13:44

Hi Margo and Meg! And thank you so much for your answers!
I have to admit I was quite confused first when the eye symptoms appeared. I needed one day to think about the alternatives and started the treatment like you say to avoid the eye damage. So Cosopt I take two drops/day(pressure) and PredForte one drop 1h first week, 2h next week then I go the ophtalmologist for a check. Now I have the first week behind me and I have almost no symptoms at the moment. The diagnosis is Iridocyclitis acuta o.sin but did she rate the iritis I can't read in the epicrisis - but maybe the medication info is enough.
So I didn't take Z this week and think I have to be very careful when I continue with Z! The doc had never heard of JHR(herx)!
This week I had also spirometry/diffusion capacity measurements and about two weeks ago CT scan and next week I go to a new pulmo doc to listen what he thinks about herxing lungs etc.
In the long run I could need more info about the ophts who treat uveitis with antibiotics - I would like to be prepaired for the case that the eye problems get worse!
Trevors opinion would interest me too - could be of more general interest too - maybe?

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   08-19-04 17:16

Risto,

Are you taking Pred Forte every hour for one week? That would be about 12 times a day? Then every two hours for one week (6 times a day)?

If so, that is a fairly high dose, about as high as most people can manage with Pred Forte. The diagnosis of iridocyclitis acuta o.sin means acute iridocyclitis in the left eye.

It is good that the symptoms have diminished so much.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Pippit (---.asm.bellsouth.net)
Date:   08-19-04 22:15

Risto,

I think Trevor would agree that the Pred Forte is not a permanent solution and can be damaging if used for very long. Now that the inflammation has gone down it would be a good idea to start thinking about another way to keep this down.

I didn't see you posting that you're on Benicar; just Z&M. If you're not on it that could be alot of the problem of why you're having so much inflammation in your eye. If your doctors won't give you the Benicar prescription you might want to consider a GP to manage your care rather than starting with a new Pulmonologist, as those are harder to convince and they're trained to go in the opposite direction of what we recommend.

If necessary we will give you some names. Let us know if you'd like these.

You may just have to do this very gradually to keep the eye inflammation down in combination with lots of Benicar taken as often as every 4 hours.

Pippit

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.okmetic.com)
Date:   08-19-04 23:54

Hi Margo & Pippit!
So it says in the prescriprion, one week one drop every hour and second week one drop every two hours, 3rd week 4 times a day and 4th week 2 times a day. But it has been difficult to remember to take so often. So I have taken practically far less. For the night time there is a different prednisone medicin. And in the biginning a dilatation? drop for 3 days.
PIPPIT: I have been on full protocoll and have increased the Olmetec dosing to 40 mg every 4-6h always when I had worse herx - this time too!
These many docs I visit are at The Helsinki University Central Hospital different clinics - the best place in this country, they say! The docs often even say they have been reading sarcinfo but I think they have not!
We will never get a Nobel Price here not even in whole Europe - now I begin to understand why!
I'll call the eye doc and ask if I can reduce the PredForte dosing - I can feel the negative influence very clearly!

Thanks again!

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.okmetic.com)
Date:   08-20-04 06:10

Hi again!
I called the clinic and they told the given prescriptions are correct and should be followed exactly, everything else like reducing the dose means that the patient takes the responsibility!

Have a nice day!

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Pippit (---.asm.bellsouth.net)
Date:   08-20-04 22:12

Hi Risto,

So does this mean they are refusing your request to discontinue or reduce steroids? If they're refusing to provide adequate supervision for you to do this then you may be better off finding another doctor.

Can you identify any sources of Vitamin D at the time your eye flaired up? This may be important as to how to prevent further flairs.

Pippit

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.pp.jippii.fi)
Date:   08-21-04 09:34

Hi Pippit!
Very few physicians in this country are specially trained in more sophisticated discussion with the patients. This is the official treatment, take it or leave it, no further discussion, they can say! It is so simple, for the doc, not for the patient! Like now as I think I possibly have a JHR(herx) iritis, the opth simply ignores the JHR in the discussion and I think in the treatment - she had never heard of JHR.
Uveitis.org had one opthalmologist on the list of recommended experts from Turku/Finland, maybe I'll call him too to get one more opinion.
But I can travel anywhere in the world anytime if it is necessary so PLEASE EMAIL ME YOUR EXPERT INFO so that I could get help in the future( reading with sick eyes is problematic ).
Any sources of Vit D: We were at our sommerhouse in June/July several weeks and many weekends later and earlier and mostly outdoors gardening etc we did even eat outdoors. I have protected my eyes with sun glasses(not NoIR). My clothing usually was not near perfect. Since the iritis I have been much more careful. Actually I now read somewhere you should be very careful in this matter especially at least the first 6 months of MP. I just had had only 3-4 months of full MP as we went to the sommerhouse! Learned it now the hard way!

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.117.101.148.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-21-04 14:47

Hi risto,

If you are on the full MP then you really don't need to find another doctor. There is an opthalmologist in New York who uses Zithromax for eye inflammation. I'll send you her contact info in case you think you need a real eye expert. She's the one I would trust.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.okmetic.com)
Date:   08-23-04 03:32

Hi Meg! And thank you for the info!
What means full MP? Is it MP third phase or can you use the expression in all phases when you fully follow the instructions - I ment this and am on the second phase.
Tomorrow I visit the pulmonologist and on thursday the ophtalmologist. I'll show her(the opth) the papers of abx treatment in uveitis and see if more cooperation is possible.
One more question: What do the infection docs mean when they say the are concerned of my kidneys on the MP? I thought Olmetec is renoprotective! 2. Aug my P-IL2R was 3025 kU/l (223-710), dU-Ca 17.26 mmol(1.3-6.5) and P-Krea 128 umol/l(60-100). One of the docs said I am in danger to become a dialyse patient for the rest of my life.( I didn't start the pred+mtx as they wanted ).

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.117.101.148.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-23-04 06:48

risto,

By full MP, I meant that you are taking the recommended dose of Benicar and also antibiotic/s. Olmetec is reno-protective. If you have inflammation in your kidneys, killing the bacteria may cause a temporary flare in kidney inflammation and that would be reflected in your kidney function tests. Certainly prednisone and MTX will do nothing to eliminate the cause of your kidney inflammation and on those meds it would slowly increase. Ask you doctors politely where you could read more about the damaging effects of Olmetec on the kidneys. IMO, the short-term increase in inflammation triggered by the MP is worth the long-term goal of resolution of inflammation.

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.pp.saunalahti.fi)
Date:   09-01-04 12:44

Hi Trevor! And thanks Meg!
My situation: Visited an eye inflamation clinic last week - doc said inflamation was gone. It was rated 2(scale 1-4) iritis or anterior uveitis in the left eye. Pressure was down to 13 from 35. Now PredForte 2 drops/day, next week 1 drop ending on thursday. Doc advised me to go to a private opth for a control after one month. Medication now 4x40mg Olmetec, Minocin 100mg ead. Two 8 day cycles no Z, earlier 62mg three 8 day cycles.
Question: When should I continue with Z and how much(31mg or less?) to avoid the uveitis and PredForte drops?
Dr. B.Wirostko I didn't ask yet.

risto

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Emmanuel G. Fortin (202.84.102.---)
Date:   09-05-04 06:05

Hi risto!!
My 6 year old kid has an inflammation on his right eye bug. Some months ago, I noticed little inflammation of his left or right eye which only last after one day. However, three days ago, his ago again inflame. This time it swells bigger than usual. Can you help me about this? I just want to know what is this all about.
Thank you very much in advance for the help.

mauix

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   09-05-04 06:52

Emmanuel,

If you are concerned about an eye problem, I would suggest a visit to the doctor, either the pediatrician or an eye specialist. All children should have regular eye examinations, by an optometrist or ophthalmologist.

This forum is for discussion of eye problems related to sarcoidosis. Does your child have sarcoidosis?

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   09-05-04 07:00

Risto,

Meg asked me to respond to your questions. I am speaking only as a parent of someone who has sarc-related uveitis.

It's good that your inflammation is gone, and your pressures are fine.

Am I correct that the specialist is transferring your care to a private ophthalmologist? That you will not be seeing the specialist again?

Perhaps you can ask one of your doctors about how to adjust the antibiotics. When a troublesome Herxheimer reaction is brought on by the antibiotics, Trevor usually suggests decreasing the antibiotics, then slowly building up, as the reaction is tolerable.

I would also ask Trevor for his insight. One could take the Z less often, and at a smaller dosage. One could also decrease the minocycline. I don't have enough experience to evaluate these options.

Margo




Hi Trevor! And thanks Meg!
My situation: Visited an eye inflamation clinic last week - doc said inflamation was gone. It was rated 2(scale 1-4) iritis or anterior uveitis in the left eye. Pressure was down to 13 from 35. Now PredForte 2 drops/day, next week 1 drop ending on thursday. Doc advised me to go to a private opth for a control after one month. Medication now 4x40mg Olmetec, Minocin 100mg ead. Two 8 day cycles no Z, earlier 62mg three 8 day cycles.
Question: When should I continue with Z and how much(31mg or less?) to avoid the uveitis and PredForte drops?
Dr. B.Wirostko I didn't ask yet.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: risto (---.okmetic.com)
Date:   09-07-04 06:34

Hi Margo and thanks for the answer!

Yes I have to go to a private opth next time.
And yes I did ask Trevor and he has not answered - I understand that he must be very busy.
On Saturday I started Z again with only 20 mg and have some herx now.
Today I had the last drop PredForte.
Lets see what happens!

Thank you again!

risto

ps: I have been reading those pubmed Wirostko papers but cannot find how they use the abx and especially Z, in what form? How is it compaired to MP?

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   09-07-04 14:49

Risto,

The papers by various Wirostko authors and others show bacteria in the vitreous of patients with uveitis associated with a number of different diseases. I don't believe they have published about using antibiotics to treat uveitis, however. My impression is that they used a higher non-pulsed dose of Z.

Other research suggests that Z might help, such as the sometime success of using methotrexate to treat uveitis. Methotrexate has an action similar to Z (folic acid inhibition), but is much more toxic than Z.

From observing my daughter's case, I think the best antibiotic choices depend on what bacteria are involved. If the Z makes you Herx, then it is going after bacteria. The difficult issue is to control the Herx, so as to keep the inflammation very low. My daughter has Herxed at each stage of the MP.

bpeck has mentioned an eye ointment, and eye drops, which she found helpful. They are discussed higher up on this thread.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: bpeck (---.bluebird.ibm.com)
Date:   09-17-04 07:33

Margo:
How's your daughter doing?
Barb

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Eve (---.client.comcast.net)
Date:   10-29-04 06:01

I have had eye concerns related to inflammation which may be an auto immune disease called mixed connective tissue disease. I used cortisone for the eye irritation and inflammation so bad that I would sleep just to close my eyes, though eyes closed did not relieve much. After 3 eye drs who didn't have a clue, I came upon two amazingly benign sounding but extremely helpful options. I was angered at first that it wasn't taken more seriously. The causes, I am learning from all of you, as I read. The HELP I need for the inflammation as follows: "hot packs" on the eyes with a clean wash cloth about 4 times whenever you get the sandy feeling. Simplifying it here, but it's as if "sandman" crunches become "melted" by the warm water soaks. THEN, I use a new eye drop (at last something worked!!!). It's called "Zatador". It's expensive, comes in a tiny little plastic eye drop bottle. I keep that prescription with me. These two things have been miracles for me. I still do not know what I have other than what they are currently calling "ocular rosacea" and allergic blepharitis, but it's interesting that I take antibiotics very often prior to dental work for a heart condition, as well as for chronic bronchitis. Once I took a bunch of antibiotics for h pylori ulcer bacteria. Interestingly, upon reading your posts, I see that antibiotics play a big role here. Never realized the eyes were among the reactions. Most of all, a doctor gave me MINOCYCLIN orally for a bizarre rash on my face and hands which not only looked scary and red but hurt. A welcome side effect - my ulcer cleared up for the longest time. And my eyes got better. I hoped it would help the face rash which affected the skin on my eyelids in a horrible way. And who knew? It also helped the eye inflammation, grittiness, and unbearable discomfort. I stopped wearing mascara, and I notice this whole thing flares from the end of September until June - cold weather and allergy season. I take Claritin but it dries things out. Anyway hope the warm/hot soaks that literally melt the grit (remove with Q tip at inner eye corner half hour later), and the Zatador drops you can ask your doctor for will be helpful to you. Trevor you sound extremely knowledgeable. When I'm done here, I will look up sarcoidosis and uveitis. To date, all I know is that I am a ball of inflammation and was looking up wobenzyme. I am allergic to all fish oils but know I can go for the flax seed oil capsules. Anyone with some insight? Encouraged and welcome! Funny how the patients communicate better than the docs. I found this with migraines as well. Learned more from migraine sufferers than docs. Wonder if the migraines are blood vessel inflammation linked to all the inflammation that appears in the ANA antibody tests they kept giving me. I don't go anymore. I just can't do the steroid shots, they made me fracture toes and ankles 3 times and had slow healing sores from them etc. Looked puffy and swollen. No more, if I can help it. Of course when in dire pain what else can we do?? Eve

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.190.172.91.eau.wi.charter.com)
Date:   10-29-04 07:29

Eve,

Welcome to SarcInfo. Sarcoidosis often causes eye problems similar to yours. The usual treatments only treat the symptoms and try to suppress inflammation. Zatidor " works on different parts of the complex immune response in your eyes". This sounds like broad immunosuppression to me. It is important to keep the inflammation in the eye down to avoid damage but treatment should also include eliminating the bacterial cause.

It sounds like you've had a great deal of difficulty getting a correct diagnosis. Many so-called autoimmune diseases are actually Th1 inflammatory diseases like sarcoidosis. Autoimmune implies that the immune system is attacking itself when it is actually trying, without success, to kill the nanobacteria that have invaded the cells of the immune system.

The Marshall Protocol will safely help the immune system to conquer these tiny bacteria. I suggest that you ask your doctor to test your D-metabolites and then post the results here or on www.marshallprotocol.com. This will clarify if your immune system response is Th1 dominant and if the MP would work for you.

Best,

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Tony (202.152.226.---)
Date:   12-08-04 23:48

Hello Margo, Barb, & others,

Is there any good results after using Can-C ?
Do you experience any side effects ? How long you have been using it ?
Do you also know, other persons (especially who are suffer only cataract) using it ? And how is the progress on them ?

Thanks much in advance for your info.

Regards
Tony

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   12-12-04 10:06

Tony,

We haven't used the Can-C very consistently. My daughter is using other eye medications, so we found it difficult to fit in the Can-C drops.

Barb Peck reports resolution of her uveitis, and no development of cataracts.

Sorry that I don't have more to report on this.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Tony (202.152.226.---)
Date:   12-12-04 18:58

Margo,

Thanks much for your reply. It's very useful ...

About Barb Peck reports, do you know (or may be she would like to describe it by herself), what does she mean with no development of cataract ?
The cataract have not been developed yet and she prevent it further using the eye drops, or the cataract have been developed, but it stopped/reversed the development ?

Is that product is safe ? How can we sure that the product is safe for long term use especially ?

Again, thank you for your info.

Regards,
Tony

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.190.172.91.eau.wi.charter.com)
Date:   12-12-04 19:39

Tony,

You bring up a very good point. We don't know if this product is safe. It was merely recommended by a member and we cannot verify if it actually worked for her. It is not endorsed by SarcInfo. Your best source of information about this product is your doctor or pharmacist.

When you have a minute, please add a signature line. This data, which will appear each time you post, greatly helps the moderators to answer your questions.

Best,

Meg

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Tony (202.152.226.---)
Date:   12-14-04 17:51

Meg,

I think the most important thing is the safety of the product, regarding its efficacy, I think it's only second priority since it may depend on the case.

But the problem is that my doctors or pharmacists don't know/understand that product (especially the N-Acetyl Carnosine/NAC) since NAC is relatively very new and not many of medical people know that, even they are doctors or pharmacists :-( ...

Thank you for the info.

p.s. Regarding a signature line, I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what do you mean ? I can not find any place for me to put separate signature line ...

Regards,
Tony

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Rick MacKinzie (---.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
Date:   12-14-04 18:34

Hi Trevor and all . . .

I turned 60 on Sunday . . . Whoppie!
I had an appointment with my Op today and after testing my eyes she said that my eyes have actually improved since the last visit 6 months ago . . .
No more stigma, and no need to increase my eyeglass strength. However, she did say that I have the tiniest of cataracts in each of my eyes. there is no need to surgery but this could account for some of my blurred vision and sensitivity to light. I can only attribute my eye health to the meds (Mino & Benciar) . . . Any thoughts here?

Rick in Napa

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.190.172.91.eau.wi.charter.com)
Date:   12-14-04 21:32

Tony,

The information on signature lines in reposted below.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: Our website has the capacity to add data to a signature line that will greatly help the moderators help you. Below is information on how to set up your signature line and what to put in it.


Go to the bottom of the main menu, and click on My Profile, and then "edit profile". Please include the following information.


(1) REQUIRED: Your diagnoses and the results of your D tests if you have had them done. If you are on the Marshall Protocol, include the start dates and dosing of each Marshall Protocol medication. You should also note if there are other medications and/or supplements which your doctor instructed you to continue while on the Marshall Protocol.


(2) Feel free to include your favorite (but brief) quote and/or the URL to your favorite research or advocacy/fundraising group.


(3) Please single space between each line to minimize the extra space that signatures occupy on the board.


You can peruse the signature lines on marshallprotocol.com to get some ideas on how to create yours.


If you post a message that does not require the moderators to know your data, you can uncheck the "add my signature to this post" to save space on the website.

Best,

Meg

Meg Mangin, R.N.-moderator-sarcoidosis-nerve, skin and joints; started MP 12/02; average B/P 80/50; in phase three;still herxing mildly with 90% symptom resolution

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Meg (---.190.172.91.eau.wi.charter.com)
Date:   12-14-04 21:36

Rick,

Happy birthday. That's great news that your eyes are better. I think you can give credit to the MP!

When you have a minute, please add a signature line. This data, which will appear each time you post, greatly helps the moderators to answer your questions.

Best,

Meg

Meg Mangin, R.N.-moderator-sarcoidosis-nerve, skin and joints; started MP 12/02; average B/P 80/50; in phase three;still herxing mildly with 90% symptom resolution

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Margo4 (---.dsl.intrex.net)
Date:   12-15-04 09:13

Rick,

Your tiny cataracts may be age-related, unfortunately, a very common occurrence. If so, they may stay very tiny for many years. Sun damage over many years is believed to be a cause of age-related cataracts; I would think that your NoIRs can only help.

Margo

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Rick MacKinzie (---.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
Date:   12-15-04 09:14

Thanks Meg, It's done . . .

Rick in Napa

Sarcoidosis - Lung - Initial Blood - Jan03 1,25-D 47.9, 25-D 19.3, ACE 122; Began PhIII May 03/05 - Flushing . . . Last Blood May 05 1,25-D 23, D-25 12, ACE 89, D-Ratio 1.9 10/05 Living w/little problems . . .

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   01-19-05 14:19

Author: Dori (outbound.canadair.ca)
Date: 01-19-05 05:17

Hi,

What are the symptoms of Sarc in the eyes?? I have an eye infection that won't go away. I was fine when I put the prescribed drops but when I finished the treatment, it just started again. I'm going to see my optometrist tomorrow. I know I've heard of Iritis but I don't think that's what I have.

Thanks.

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   01-19-05 14:53

Dori,

Welcome to SarcInfo.com. Symptoms of sarcoidosis in the eyes can include blurred vision, dry eyes, sensitivity to light, red eyes and inflammation of any part of the eye (uveitis or iritis, for instance). Here is a good link with information about ocular symptoms of sarcoidosis. Keep in mind that sarcoidosis may first be symptomatic in the eyes, long before it is recongized in the rest of the body. Sarcoidosis is actually a systemic disease and systemic progression may be ocurring without symptoms, while a person experiences only ocular symptoms.

Belinda

*MODERATOR* Dx: FM 80's, sarcoidosis '01; Lung, skin, spleen, liver and neuro. Refused Prednisone. 7/02 1,25-D 61.1, 25-D 14.3. MP since '02 PhaseIII with symptoms gone, slight Herx. Improved PFTs, CTs, X-ray, energy and stamina. I walk 3-4 mi daily now

 
 Re: Eye problems, cataracts
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   01-19-05 17:40

Author: Margo (client207-136.dsl.intrex.net)
Date: 01-19-05 17:10

Dori,

Sarc in the eyes can appear as granulomas in the tear ducts or under the lid. What is often seen, however, is signs of inflammation (white blood cells in the fluids of the eye, redness, other signs of inflammation). An eye doctor can see the inflammatory cells when examining the eyes with a slit lamp microscope.

Do you have a diagnosis of sarcoidosis?

If you have iritis, or uveitis, your optometrist should refer you to an ophthalmologist.

Let us know how your optometrist visit goes.

Margo

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Historical perspective on Sarcoidosis:


  1. The John's Hopkins Vasculitis Center: Prednisone Side Effects (incl. PHOTOS and PHOTOGRAPHS)
  2. Steroid-Treated patients Have higher risk of Cardiac problems
  3. "Evidence Growing That Inhaled Steroids, Like Steroid Pills, Can Cause Bone Loss"
  4. "Corticosteroids contribute to the prolongation of the disease by delaying resolution"
  5. "No data to suggest that corticosteroid therapy alters long-term disease progression"
  6. Cochrane Review - "Oral and Inhaled Corticosteroids have no discernible effect on lung function"
  7. Prednisone Improves Symptoms but not Lung Function in Sarcodiosis
  8. There is no conclusive evidence that corticosteroids affect the development of irreversible pulmonary damage
  9. Clinical Guideline For Treatment Of Arthritis Pain
  10. Angiotensin II receptor on BALF macrophages from Japanese patients with active sarcoidosis

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